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Conflict in the Middle East

Palestine Action demo 9 August

415 replies

Beachtastic · 06/08/2025 09:35

To my amazement, last night I discovered that some posters on MN think that "radical Islam" means simply "Muslim" 😬

I wonder if this explains why so many are unconcerned about who might be pulling the strings behind the "peace" rallies that were first organised on 7 October? Do they know what radical Islam is, how powerful it is, that it is widely acknowledged as the greatest threat to UK national security, that its intentions are clearly stated, that it is 10000000% different than simply observing Muslim faith?

Palestine Action are planning a rally in central London on Saturday and hope to overwhelm the police presence. Is anyone concerned about this? I'm worried that the seeds of civil unrest are being sown, without it being entirely clear who is sowing them.

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/met-police-palestine-action-protest-b1241347.html

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SharonEllis · 06/08/2025 19:23

Stripes56 · 06/08/2025 18:27

Here’s the list @Dangermoo
Really looking forward to what you find out about those brave enough to put their names on the list.

Gilbert Achcar Emeritus professor of development studies and international relations, Soas University of London
Anne Alexander Senior research associate, Cambridge Digital Humanities, University of Cambridge
Tariq Ali Writer and historian
Sandra Babcock Clinical professor of law, Cornell Law School
Étienne Balibar Professor emeritus of philosophy, University of Paris X, Nanterre
Chetan Bhatt Anthony Giddens professor of social theory, London School of Economics
Wendy Brown UPS Foundation chair, school of social science, Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton
Susan Buck-Morss Distinguished professor, CUNY Graduate Centre
Judith Butler Distinguished professor in the graduate school, department of comparativeliterature, University of California, Berkeley
Alex Callinicos Emeritus professor of European studies, King’s College London
John Chalcraft Professor of Middle East history and politics, London School of Economics
Emilios Christodoulidis Chair of jurisprudence, University of Glasgow
Rebecca Comay Professor of philosophy and comparative literature, University of Toronto
Angela Davis Distinguished professor emerita, University of California, Santa Cruz
Alex de Waal Executive director, World Peace Foundation
Jodi Dean Professor of politics, Hobart and William Smith Colleges, Geneva, New York
Elsa Dorlin Professor of contemporary political philosophy, Université Toulouse Jean Jaurès
Jennifer Doyle Professor of English, University of California, Riverside
Haidar Eid Associate professor of postcolonial literature, Al-Aqsa University, Gaza, Palestine
Roberto Esposito Professor of philosophy, Scuola Normale Superiore, Pisa
John Bellamy Foster Professor emeritus, sociology, University of Oregon
Verónica Gago Professor of social sciences, University of Buenos Aires
Neve Gordon Professor of international law, Queen Mary University of London
Greg Grandin Peter V and C Vann Woodward professor of history, Yale University
Penny Green Professor of law and globalisation, Queen Mary University of London
Peter Hallward Professor of modern European philosophy, Centre for Research in Modern European Philosophy, Kingston University
Michael Hardt Professor of literature, Duke University
Robin DG Kelley Professor of history, University of California, Los Angeles
Rashid Khalidi Edward Said professor emeritus of modern Arab studies, Columbia University
Naomi Klein Associate professor of climate justice, University of British Columbia
Elena Loizidou Professor in law and political theory, Birkbeck, University of London
Frédéric Lordon Research director, Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, France
Tracy McNulty Professor of comparative literature and Romance studies, Cornell University
Angela McRobbie Professor emeritus, Goldsmiths, University of London
Sandro Mezzadra Professor of political theory, University of Bologna
China Miéville Salvage
Abdaljawad Omar Assistant professor of philosophy and cultural studies, Birzeit University, Palestine
Ilan Pappé Professor of history and Middle Eastern studies, and director of the European Centre for Palestine Studies, University of Exeter
Paul Patton Emeritus professor of philosophy, University of New South Wales
Bruce Robbins Old Dominion Foundation professor in the humanities, Columbia University
William I Robinson Distinguished professor of sociology, University of California, Santa Barbara
Jacqueline Rose Professor of humanities and co-director of the Birkbeck Institute for the Humanities, University of London
Lynne Segal Professor emerita of psychosocial studies, Birkbeck, University of London
Avi Shlaim Emeritus professor of international relations, St Antony’s College, Oxford
Nikhil Pal Singh Chair, department of social and cultural analysis, New York University
Elettra Stimilli Professor of philosophy, Sapienza Università di Roma
Rei Terada Professor emerita of comparative literature, University of California, Irvine
Enzo Traverso Professor in the humanities, Cornell University
Françoise Vergès Senior research fellow, Sarah Parker Remond Centre for the Study of Racism and Racialisation, University College London
Mara Viveros Vigoya Professor in the faculty of human sciences at Universidad Nacional de Colombia, and Simón Bolívar professor, University of Cambridge, 2024-25
Eyal Weizman Founding director of Forensic Architecture and professor of spatial and visual cultures, Goldsmiths, University of London
Jessica Whyte Scientia associate professor of philosophy, University of New South Wales

Edited

What on earth is brave about people who are protected by the ivory towers of academia signing a letter with their echo chamber as the intended audience.

What danger are they exposing themselves to?

Thelmaandloulou · 06/08/2025 19:28

"The usual suspects" according to Sharon

🙄

Stripes56 · 06/08/2025 19:32

Thelmaandloulou · 06/08/2025 19:28

"The usual suspects" according to Sharon

🙄

I think it brave particularly academics from the US, who may be penalised for their advocacy of others.

As Babcock and others put at the end of an opinion piece on Gaza:

“By publishing this op-ed, we expose ourselves to harassment and risk losing our jobs. But if we silence ourselves on Palestine, how can we call ourselves human rights defenders?”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/may/15/israel-apartheid-human-rights

We are human rights lawyers. Our new report is clear: Israel perpetrates apartheid | Sandra L Babock, Susan M Akram, Thomas Becker and James Cavallaro

We conclude that Israel’s treatment of Palestinians, including mass killing, arbitrary detention and torture, meets the legal threshold for the term

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/may/15/israel-apartheid-human-rights

Beachtastic · 06/08/2025 19:34

I'm absolutely knackered (it's been a long day) but this thread just seems to have confirmed what I was shocked to learn last night on MN: that some people really have no idea what radical Islam is and what threat it poses in Europe.

The reason it can be difficult comparing notes on social media is that everyone has a different frame of reference, so we join up the dots differently. But unless you actually understand what radical Islam is, and why it is so terrifying (and just to reiterate, I AM NOT REPEAT NOT TALKING ABOUT THE MUSLIM FAITH!), then you will never join up the dots because there is a fucking huuuuuuuge "dot" that you're not even aware of. I'm shocked that a PP can't even be arsed to read a simple, concise report about it linked earlier. This is important information to get to grips with at the moment.

I mean I don't care that much, I'll be dead soon and have no children, but I do worry that the UK is sleepwalking into potential danger here. It strikes me as terribly gullible and naive that (what appear to be) leftwing moralists are completely unaware of this rising fascist threat, and even unwittingly (I hope) lend their voices in its support.

To answer a PP about the link between radical Islam and Defend Our Juries, DOJ are obviously well-meaning: their focus is on legal activism and civil rights. In contrast, radical Islam is an extremely dangerous geopolitical and ideological movement, and it would be surprising if their tentacles did not reach into Palestine Action because that is how they operate. Maybe if you read a bit more about it, you will understand. One thing that sticks out to me is that they arranged the first "pro-Palestinian" rally ON 7 OCTOBER, as the atrocities in Israel were still unfolding, and soon had people marching solemnly and chanting "From the river to the sea" which has a very specific meaning that is not lost on our tiny Jewish population.

Radical Islam spreads its ideology through online propaganda, religious outreach, and social media (see link below, if you can be arsed). They are very sophisticated in their strategies. Once individuals are "radicalised", someone in the Middle East can just snap their fingers and trigger something really nasty happening in other countries (e.g. the Arras stabbings in France).

As I said earlier, the stifling of Palestine Action naturally sounds alarm bells in a liberal country that values freedom of speech. But I doubt we will ever be party to the information the decision was based on. Counter-terrorism has been having to work harder than ever since October 2023.

ctc.westpoint.edu/from-tiktok-to-terrorism-the-online-radicalization-of-european-lone-attackers-since-october-7-2023/

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SharonEllis · 06/08/2025 19:39

Thelmaandloulou · 06/08/2025 19:28

"The usual suspects" according to Sharon

🙄

They are pretty much all well known anti-Israel activists with a long record of signing this sort of thing. Who on the list surprised you?

Dangermoo · 06/08/2025 19:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Beachtastic · 06/08/2025 19:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

No!!! We're all Israeli bots!!!!! 😂😂😂

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Martymcfly24 · 06/08/2025 19:50

Stripes56 · 06/08/2025 19:32

I think it brave particularly academics from the US, who may be penalised for their advocacy of others.

As Babcock and others put at the end of an opinion piece on Gaza:

“By publishing this op-ed, we expose ourselves to harassment and risk losing our jobs. But if we silence ourselves on Palestine, how can we call ourselves human rights defenders?”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/may/15/israel-apartheid-human-rights

It's very brave from any academics from the US, the ramifications from a government that has suggested deporting American citizens for crimes and has attempted to deport numerous pro Palestinan protesters.
Plus we saw what happened to Harvard:

Harvard had already taken steps to try to appease the Trump administration by eliminating its diversity offices, cutting ties to a Palestinian university, following through on a commitment to establishing ties with Israeli universities, and centralizing disciplinary powers under Garber.

AzurePanda · 06/08/2025 19:51

@SharonEllisquite, what would be “brave” would be an academic at an elite institution coming out in favour of Israel.

Dangermoo · 06/08/2025 19:59

Martymcfly24 · 06/08/2025 19:50

It's very brave from any academics from the US, the ramifications from a government that has suggested deporting American citizens for crimes and has attempted to deport numerous pro Palestinan protesters.
Plus we saw what happened to Harvard:

Harvard had already taken steps to try to appease the Trump administration by eliminating its diversity offices, cutting ties to a Palestinian university, following through on a commitment to establishing ties with Israeli universities, and centralizing disciplinary powers under Garber.

Oh please. Those academics are using this conflict, to add to their publication portfolio. They are biased and this is why I questioned why the poster, produced this list, when I asked where critics of extreme Islam were, in relation to the war.

Martymcfly24 · 06/08/2025 20:08

Dangermoo · 06/08/2025 19:59

Oh please. Those academics are using this conflict, to add to their publication portfolio. They are biased and this is why I questioned why the poster, produced this list, when I asked where critics of extreme Islam were, in relation to the war.

Fascinates me that someone can dehumanise Palestinians so much that supporting them not being brutally bombed and starved is merely "adding to their portfolio".
That they could not have seen and heard of the suffering and made up their own mind that no human being should be treated this way .

Beachtastic · 06/08/2025 20:17

Martymcfly24 · 06/08/2025 20:08

Fascinates me that someone can dehumanise Palestinians so much that supporting them not being brutally bombed and starved is merely "adding to their portfolio".
That they could not have seen and heard of the suffering and made up their own mind that no human being should be treated this way .

Haven't you noticed the very clever and systematic "dehumanisation" of Israel over the past couple of years? (I know how you're going to answer this.) It is such a shame you can't see this or understand quite what they are up against. It's not just continuous bombardment from Gaza, nor even the violent sadism of 7 October, nor even the deliberate cruelty of e.g. starving Evyatar David and forcing him back into captivity to dig his own grave after watching the release of other hostages, nor ... I could go on. Israel is a tiny country facing a very specific threat, wider and more powerful than its immediate neighbour, that it seems no one on here can even be bothered to find out more about. I'ts a threat that potentially extends to Europe. And still no one can be bothered to read more.

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Thelmaandloulou · 06/08/2025 20:21

Israel is the biggest threat to the middle east. Shame YOU can't see it.

Thelmaandloulou · 06/08/2025 20:22

Shame you continue to turn a blind eye to the genocide Israel is carrying out.

Mistyglade · 06/08/2025 20:25

Beachtastic · 06/08/2025 19:03

I've been driving all day. If you can't be bothered to read a link to clear information from a valid source, that's up to you.

Sorry I didn’t have wifi at the time. Thank you for your recent post.

Martymcfly24 · 06/08/2025 20:26

Beachtastic · 06/08/2025 20:17

Haven't you noticed the very clever and systematic "dehumanisation" of Israel over the past couple of years? (I know how you're going to answer this.) It is such a shame you can't see this or understand quite what they are up against. It's not just continuous bombardment from Gaza, nor even the violent sadism of 7 October, nor even the deliberate cruelty of e.g. starving Evyatar David and forcing him back into captivity to dig his own grave after watching the release of other hostages, nor ... I could go on. Israel is a tiny country facing a very specific threat, wider and more powerful than its immediate neighbour, that it seems no one on here can even be bothered to find out more about. I'ts a threat that potentially extends to Europe. And still no one can be bothered to read more.

No I haven't noticed that dehumanizing of the Israeli people at all. They are players on the world stage like every other country. Israel has been aided, abetted and supported by both the EU and the US. They have received no actual sanctions for their behavior over the past 20 months and can still participate in sporting and other entertainment events . Their citizens can still travel the world.

Supporting Israel is seen as supporting the country and it's people, no one calls Pro Israelis virtue signaller or useful idiots and reduces their support as hopping on a bandwagon.

So no I don't see them having being dehumanised in the way pp spoke about, that supporting them is just a trendy cause because no one actually cares about Palestinians do they, they just want to punish Israel?

Beachtastic · 06/08/2025 20:31

Martymcfly24 · 06/08/2025 20:26

No I haven't noticed that dehumanizing of the Israeli people at all. They are players on the world stage like every other country. Israel has been aided, abetted and supported by both the EU and the US. They have received no actual sanctions for their behavior over the past 20 months and can still participate in sporting and other entertainment events . Their citizens can still travel the world.

Supporting Israel is seen as supporting the country and it's people, no one calls Pro Israelis virtue signaller or useful idiots and reduces their support as hopping on a bandwagon.

So no I don't see them having being dehumanised in the way pp spoke about, that supporting them is just a trendy cause because no one actually cares about Palestinians do they, they just want to punish Israel?

Who do you think is aiding and abetting Hamas? Clue: They're not short of a few bob.

OP posts:
Martymcfly24 · 06/08/2025 20:31

Beachtastic · 06/08/2025 20:31

Who do you think is aiding and abetting Hamas? Clue: They're not short of a few bob.

I have no idea, I never mentioned Hamas. Wasn't discussing them at all.

Edited to add. : I do not support Hamas or their actions.

Beachtastic · 06/08/2025 20:36

Well, I guess we just have to wait and see.

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noblegiraffe · 06/08/2025 20:43

Martymcfly24 · 06/08/2025 20:08

Fascinates me that someone can dehumanise Palestinians so much that supporting them not being brutally bombed and starved is merely "adding to their portfolio".
That they could not have seen and heard of the suffering and made up their own mind that no human being should be treated this way .

The list of academics posted was foreigners attempting to overturn a vote in our parliament to declare as terrorists group who have, among other things, attacked policemen with a sledge hammer and jeopardised our national security.

It's nothing to do with supporting Palestinians and tbh I suspect that they, like some people on this thread, know fuck all about this particular group and have merely been told that they are being proscribed for 'protesting genocide'.

SharonEllis · 06/08/2025 20:46

Martymcfly24 · 06/08/2025 20:26

No I haven't noticed that dehumanizing of the Israeli people at all. They are players on the world stage like every other country. Israel has been aided, abetted and supported by both the EU and the US. They have received no actual sanctions for their behavior over the past 20 months and can still participate in sporting and other entertainment events . Their citizens can still travel the world.

Supporting Israel is seen as supporting the country and it's people, no one calls Pro Israelis virtue signaller or useful idiots and reduces their support as hopping on a bandwagon.

So no I don't see them having being dehumanised in the way pp spoke about, that supporting them is just a trendy cause because no one actually cares about Palestinians do they, they just want to punish Israel?

You're right pro-Israelis aren't generally called useful idiots but they are routinely called genocide deniers and supporters, baby killers, supporters of apartheid, racists. The dehumanisation comes from the lack of empathy for ordinary Israelis, the ignoring of the suffering of the hostages, denial of the reality of 7 October, complete denial of the way the war affects ordinary Israelis, and the expectation that Israel must act to the highest standards despite the trauma they are living through.

Beachtastic · 06/08/2025 20:51

SharonEllis · 06/08/2025 20:46

You're right pro-Israelis aren't generally called useful idiots but they are routinely called genocide deniers and supporters, baby killers, supporters of apartheid, racists. The dehumanisation comes from the lack of empathy for ordinary Israelis, the ignoring of the suffering of the hostages, denial of the reality of 7 October, complete denial of the way the war affects ordinary Israelis, and the expectation that Israel must act to the highest standards despite the trauma they are living through.

The odd thing about your final point is how racist and reductionist it is with regard to the Palestinian people.

Posters (appear to) sincerely believe that "Palestinian voices are being heard" as though not heavily filtered, either digitally or via execution.

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Martymcfly24 · 06/08/2025 20:52

noblegiraffe · 06/08/2025 20:43

The list of academics posted was foreigners attempting to overturn a vote in our parliament to declare as terrorists group who have, among other things, attacked policemen with a sledge hammer and jeopardised our national security.

It's nothing to do with supporting Palestinians and tbh I suspect that they, like some people on this thread, know fuck all about this particular group and have merely been told that they are being proscribed for 'protesting genocide'.

@noblegiraffe as I said earlier in the thread I'm not in the UK and I don't know much about the group.

My point to the pp was once again they in particular have dismissed people genuinely caring about the plight of Palestinians and see it only through the lens of showing bias against Israel.

Martymcfly24 · 06/08/2025 20:58

SharonEllis · 06/08/2025 20:46

You're right pro-Israelis aren't generally called useful idiots but they are routinely called genocide deniers and supporters, baby killers, supporters of apartheid, racists. The dehumanisation comes from the lack of empathy for ordinary Israelis, the ignoring of the suffering of the hostages, denial of the reality of 7 October, complete denial of the way the war affects ordinary Israelis, and the expectation that Israel must act to the highest standards despite the trauma they are living through.

Sharon neither sets of name calling is correct or right .

I fully accept the terrible trauma of the hostages and the victims of October 7th and other Hamas atrocities over the years. In no way would I minimise their suffering.

I am just very frustrated that support for Palestinians is seen by some as to get back at Israel rather than genuinely caring about a population under siege.