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Conflict in the Middle East

27 children have been murdered by the IOF every day for 650 days in Gaza (UNICEF)

652 replies

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 19/07/2025 15:12

Facts:

  • At least 15,000 children have been killed since the war began in October 2023.
  • Many have died in airstrikes, building collapses, or stampedes at aid sites.
  • Thousands more have been injured, often with life-altering wounds, burns, or amputations.
  • Gaza is facing famine-like conditions.
  • Children are eating grass, leaves, or going days without food.
  • Severe malnutrition is widespread, especially in northern Gaza. Babies and toddlers are dying of hunger-related causes.
  • Nearly all children in Gaza are now considered to have signs of acute psychological trauma:
  • Nightmares
  • Bedwetting
  • Non-responsiveness (shutdown/dissociation)
  • Panic at loud sounds
  • Many have lost one or both parents, siblings, or entire families.
  • Most hospitals have been bombed or shut down.
  • Children can’t access basic care, vaccines, or treatment for chronic illnesses.
  • Wounded kids are operated on without anesthesia in some cases.
  • Over 1 million children have been displaced—many multiple times.
  • Families sleep in tents, rubble, or outdoors with no clean water or toilets.
  • Nearly all schools have been shut down, destroyed, or turned into shelters.
  • Many teachers and schoolchildren have been killed.
  • A whole generation risks growing up with no access to education or safety.
  • Children are drinking dirty water, leading to diarrheal diseases and infections.
  • Outbreaks of hepatitis, lice, and scabies are widespread.
  • Even in declared “safe zones” or aid areas, children have been shot, suffocated in stampedes, or killed by nearby strikes.
  • Some have died while queuing for water or food.

“There is no safe place left for children in Gaza. They are being killed, starved, maimed, and psychologically shattered. This is not a humanitarian crisis—this is a crisis of humanity.”
— Save the Children, July 2025

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41
PaxAeterna · 21/07/2025 22:20

Beachtastic · 21/07/2025 21:54

Sure. I just feel wary of the (understandable) depth of feeling being whipped up by social media, especially as you'd have to actually search the Dark Web to find out all the gory details about 7 October. Imagery is a powerful weapon of propaganda, and I don't think Westerners understand the Israeli reluctance to share the intimate details of their own suffering for our lesiure consumption.

On these forums, there are clearly identifiable themes of underdog/oppressor (largely shaped by somewhat racist views of "poor Palestinians", colonial guilt, and natural distrust of US global investment), without any acknowledgment of the obscene wealth funding Hamas from oil-rich countries that also want to see Israel eradicated. Plenty of "Oh, if only they were given half a chance, life would be so peaceful over there." No, it wouldn't. If only that were true, greater minds than ours would have solved this problem long ago.

We Europeans think we know all about fascism, because we've "been there, done that" so we think we know what it looks like: an angry white man spouting racism. I fear there's another form of it rising now that our worldview cannot compute, as we're just not attuned to it.

I wish there was a solution that did not involve grotesque levels of human suffering, but imagining that there is seems to completely disregard what's at stake for Israel. Yes, they have met force with +++FORCE+++, but as Mosab Hassan Yousef keeps emphasising, this is a Middle Eastern war and doing it any other way would be seen as weak (and surely he, as son of a Hamas founder, should know!).

Hamas are Israel's immediate close threat, but by no means the only one. In a conflict like this, I don't think you can measure "proportionality" in terms of numbers killed. It's been said before, but I do wonder how we would want our own government to respond if, say, the UK was surrounded by similar dangers - e.g. actively hostile paramilitary groups in Ireland, ongoing territorial disputes and no diplomatic relations with France, a peace treaty with Belgium but frequent public protests against the UK, a cold peace and border incidents with Spain, all of them funded distantly by (say) Russia and all of them threatening our annihilation... and against this background, an invasion where we were mutilated, sexually tortured, burned alive, etc and they all cheered and promised plenty more such visits.

What would make me feel safe in those circumstances? Probably nothing; and maybe Israel's response will turn out to make things worse for its own people in the long run (I hope not); but there don't seem to be any miracle answers, such as signing a peace agreement with terrorists who have taken such delight in showing what they're capable of.

There is so much there to unpick. But honestly; you essentially believe Israelis are superior to Palestinians. I can tell them that because you are only looking at this from their perspective and you prioritise their “sense of safety” . If killing children makes them feel safe that is fair enough? They don’t like to share their suffering, not like those Palestinians eh? The people in the Middle East are completely different so you need to kill big and go for the starvation and internment camps??? Just so nobody thinks you are weak.

Beachtastic · 21/07/2025 22:23

PaxAeterna · 21/07/2025 22:20

There is so much there to unpick. But honestly; you essentially believe Israelis are superior to Palestinians. I can tell them that because you are only looking at this from their perspective and you prioritise their “sense of safety” . If killing children makes them feel safe that is fair enough? They don’t like to share their suffering, not like those Palestinians eh? The people in the Middle East are completely different so you need to kill big and go for the starvation and internment camps??? Just so nobody thinks you are weak.

I'm trying to present the Israeli perspective, which seems to get overlooked somewhat on these threads as though they really have nothing to fear.

Please don't tell me what I "essentially believe".

Mercurial123 · 21/07/2025 22:27

Twiglets1 · 19/07/2025 20:09

Do you have empathy for the civilians killed on 7/10?

Yes, of course I do. Why wouldn't I?

smallglassbottle · 21/07/2025 23:02

Beachtastic · 21/07/2025 16:50

By flooding the social media accounts of well-meaning Westerners with a never-ending stream of horrific images, unlike Israel who have drawn a discreet veil over the revolting atrocities of 7 October (out of respect for the dead and their loved ones, and to avoid compromising investigations).

By ensuring that Hamas combatants are entirely indistinguishable from civilians, and maximising civilian deaths/casualties in their choice of tactics (tunnels, siting of command centres). Then declaring all deaths to be “innocent” – not one Hamas fighter among all those dead? Really?

By notifying the Met Police, as the events of 7 October were taking place, that a demo would be held in central London the following weekend. This went ahead and resulted in several arrests, but immediately established the narrative in people’s minds that this was not a terror attack but a perfectly justified response to oppression.

MN shows how well it’s all working.

So Palestinians aren't being bombed, shot at, deprived of food and water, tortured and displaced and are actually doing okay? 😲 it's all been propaganda?!

Wow, I can't be trusting major media sites, aid agencies or the UN anymore then.

businessflop25 · 21/07/2025 23:23

@Beachtasticso you think Israel’s response to October 7th is proportional then? You think attacking ambulances with their emergency lights on is proportional? You think stopping aid getting across the border is proportional do you? You think preventing any outside oversight is proportional? You think dropping bombs on hospitals and refugees camps is acceptable?
Israel is breaking international laws left right and centre. Israel will not be safer due to the actions of the IDF and the Israeli government.
There has been No concerted effort to have peaceful relations with Palestinians for decades. There are other ways Israel could have handled this. Including a far more proportional, targeted attempt to weed out Hamas based on good intelligence. They could have worked to cut off the funding and weapons going into Hamas hands.They could have stopped annexing more and more of the West Bank and worked to improve relations there. There were other choices than indiscriminately killing civilians.

PaxAeterna · 21/07/2025 23:25

Beachtastic · 21/07/2025 22:23

I'm trying to present the Israeli perspective, which seems to get overlooked somewhat on these threads as though they really have nothing to fear.

Please don't tell me what I "essentially believe".

Well the human perspective is that over 2 million people have reached a new depth of despair for this war, that children are being admitted for acute malnutrition, 800 people have been killed just while seeking aid.

The suffering is off the scale, so do you think Israelis sleep more soundly as a result? Nothing to fear at all. Just international condemnation, isolation and 2 million people that they’ve traumatised on their doorstep.

Stripes56 · 22/07/2025 00:41

I am interested to hear your views@Beachtastic - a reasoned Israeli view that doesn’t just blame Hamas but can see how IDF actions have also contributed to this devastation.

Do you live in Israel?

EasyTouch · 22/07/2025 01:03

Crystalight · 21/07/2025 21:12

I agree with you. Jews in Europe were treated horrendously. What is awful is that Jews in the Middle East also paid the price for the Zionist project. I don’t think this history will be forgotten or rewritten.

What constitutes the "Zionist project" for you? And for you, does Middle EasternMuslim anti Semitism play no part in how Jews suffer in the Middle East, especially as it has been a theme since very long before the creation of modern Israel and one of the main catalysts for the fight for its creation?

The Holocaust was but the final straw that broke Western resistance to the creation of the modern state of Israel. Six million of a small minority group being deliberately targeted, continent wide and seen as collateral damage (whose saving did not mesh with any allied anti Axis battle strategy in the whole six years of the war) in a war against a complete anti most of humanity mad man's Germany ....who in the West was going to put up a resistance to the world's only Jewish state in a place where they are indigenous and have had continuous presence for Millennia, even at one time being named for them until the Romans came along and named it Palestine?

And even without Israel, the Middle East has managed/manages to do Anti Semitism just excellently.

Beachtastic · 22/07/2025 08:54

Stripes56 · 22/07/2025 00:41

I am interested to hear your views@Beachtastic - a reasoned Israeli view that doesn’t just blame Hamas but can see how IDF actions have also contributed to this devastation.

Do you live in Israel?

I've come in for a kicking on here this morning, as I expected. No, of course I don't condone the tragedy unfolding in Gaza. My only reason for participating on these threads is not to pretend to understand what's happening there, but to express concern for what is going on here in the UK.

Those solemn processions in support of "Palestine" were initiated on 7 October and very much set the stage for our interpretation of the Hamas attacks as a kind of valid resistance (the Brits have always loved an underdog). "From the river to the sea" is chanted in our streets by people who say they only want peace. "Death to the IDF" is met with a roar of applause at Glastonbury, FFS! and broadcast by the BBC!

No, I don't live in Israel, and am not Jewish, but I read this with interest. She describes in great detail, from December 2023 up until February 2025, what it's like for her living there. Maybe ask her a question? At least read the thread, if you haven't already?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/AMA/4967191-im-a-jewish-israeli-ama

I'm a Jewish Israeli, AMA | Mumsnet

Jewish Israeli here. I grew up in a different country but have lived and worked most of my adult life here, living a fairly normal everyday life in no...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/AMA/4967191-im-a-jewish-israeli-ama

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 22/07/2025 10:34

I see that now the job is nearly done, David Lammy has something to say. Too little, too late. What number of deaths was needed before this was necessary?

MissyB1 · 22/07/2025 10:41

Perhaps the British Government could stop selling military equipment to Israel if they really don't like what is being done in Gaza? Just a thought....

Babyboomtastic · 22/07/2025 11:35

I don't think people have grasped that the best way to disarm Hamas/other similar groups, long term, is to stop bombing Gaza.

Israel banned passata, crayons, chocolate etc in case they were somehow transformed into weapons (yeah, I'm not buying that either...) at the same time as bombing Gaza for decades, which has given the terrorists metal and explosives, which they reform into (mostly pretty pathetic thankfully) rockets which they lob back at Israel. The biggest supplier of weapons to Gaza is Israel itself.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/07/2025 13:23

Anonimummy · 21/07/2025 13:30

As I said where’s the videos of the IDF deliberately targeting civilians and sniping kids?

You blindly believe accusations from one side with no evidence but dismiss actual evidence from the other side.

That makes a lot of sense.

We don’t need videos.
You don’t “accidentally” kill over 600 civilians at aid distribution sites, including children, doctors, and journalists.
The UN and multiple human rights organisations have confirmed that at least 613 people have been killed at or near aid sites and convoys. Gaza’s health ministry says over 1,000 people have died trying to access food.
This isn’t hearsay. It’s well-documented.
So sit down and stop demanding footage like this is some grotesque reality show.

OP posts:
Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/07/2025 13:37

honestly I wouldn’t bother having a discussion with this user, they just go round and round in the same circles using the same tired tropes.

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Anonimummy · 22/07/2025 13:44

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/07/2025 13:23

We don’t need videos.
You don’t “accidentally” kill over 600 civilians at aid distribution sites, including children, doctors, and journalists.
The UN and multiple human rights organisations have confirmed that at least 613 people have been killed at or near aid sites and convoys. Gaza’s health ministry says over 1,000 people have died trying to access food.
This isn’t hearsay. It’s well-documented.
So sit down and stop demanding footage like this is some grotesque reality show.

You are just trying to deflect away from the fact there is no evidence of civilians being deliberately targeted.

You don’t fool me, hun.

Gaza’s health ministry is HAMAS btw and there are plenty of reports, including amongst Gazans themselves, of them killing and torturing civilians to deter them from getting aid at GHF sites.

Do you know why Hamas (and the UN) wants to shut down the GHF sites?

Clue - it’s not because ‘over a thousand people (thought it was 800?) have died trying to access food.’

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 22/07/2025 13:51

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/07/2025 13:37

honestly I wouldn’t bother having a discussion with this user, they just go round and round in the same circles using the same tired tropes.

There’s a few of those!

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/07/2025 13:52

@Anonimummy
Hun, there is credible, independently verified evidence, from UN agencies like OCHA, Human Rights Watch, and Amnesty International that civilians and aid sites in Gaza have been deliberately targeted. Denying this isn’t fooling anyone- it’s just ignoring facts.

Yes, Gaza’s health ministry is run under Hamas control, but that doesn’t erase Israel’s obligations under international humanitarian law to protect civilians. The UN’s own reports have condemned strikes on civilian infrastructure and aid distribution points.

As for claims about Hamas or the UN wanting to shut down aid sites, that’s baseless conspiracy talk. The reality is documented: aid sites are being weaponized and hit, leading to hundreds of deaths among desperate civilians trying to access food and medicine.

If you care about truth and human lives, start with facts, hun- not dismissive slogans.

Imagine clicking on a thread titled “27 children have been murdered by the IOF every day for 650 days in Gaza (UNICEF)” and thinking ‘this is a great place to justify the deaths of tens of thousands of children- including starving newborns in incubators.’

If that’s where your moral compass points, it’s not broken- it’s missing.

A man wearing an OCHA vest and helmet is helping upload an ambulance stretcher with a person lying on it into an ambulance, which has its back doors open. Another ambulance can be seen parked alongside it.

Occupied Palestinian Territory

The Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT) faces a protracted political crisis characterized by more than 55 years of Israeli military occupation, internal Palestinian divisions, and recurrent escalations of hostilities.

https://www.unocha.org/occupied-palestinian-territory

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marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 22/07/2025 13:52

@AnonimummyNO, YOU don’t fool us.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 22/07/2025 13:53

Or the rest of the world, now.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/07/2025 13:55

Twiglets1 · 21/07/2025 14:43

If it’s not even a war anymore then why don’t Hamas surrender?

They must consider it’s still a war.

They are making gains with propaganda if nothing else. They must consider it worth continuing?

I already answered this directly to you, in lots of detail, several pages back! You’re just going round I ln circles.

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Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/07/2025 14:06

Beachtastic · 21/07/2025 22:23

I'm trying to present the Israeli perspective, which seems to get overlooked somewhat on these threads as though they really have nothing to fear.

Please don't tell me what I "essentially believe".

Do you condemn the purposeful starvation of newborns?

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Beachtastic · 22/07/2025 14:09

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/07/2025 14:06

Do you condemn the purposeful starvation of newborns?

Oh, absolutely not, obviously, I am a complete psychopath 😶

All those of you expending so much energy on putting the boot into Israel here, have ANY of you even looked at this thread? You might find it answers a few of your questions.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/AMA/4967191-im-a-jewish-israeli-ama

Anonimummy · 22/07/2025 14:11

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/07/2025 13:52

@Anonimummy
Hun, there is credible, independently verified evidence, from UN agencies like OCHA, Human Rights Watch, and Amnesty International that civilians and aid sites in Gaza have been deliberately targeted. Denying this isn’t fooling anyone- it’s just ignoring facts.

Yes, Gaza’s health ministry is run under Hamas control, but that doesn’t erase Israel’s obligations under international humanitarian law to protect civilians. The UN’s own reports have condemned strikes on civilian infrastructure and aid distribution points.

As for claims about Hamas or the UN wanting to shut down aid sites, that’s baseless conspiracy talk. The reality is documented: aid sites are being weaponized and hit, leading to hundreds of deaths among desperate civilians trying to access food and medicine.

If you care about truth and human lives, start with facts, hun- not dismissive slogans.

Imagine clicking on a thread titled “27 children have been murdered by the IOF every day for 650 days in Gaza (UNICEF)” and thinking ‘this is a great place to justify the deaths of tens of thousands of children- including starving newborns in incubators.’

If that’s where your moral compass points, it’s not broken- it’s missing.

Edited

You’ve lost me at Hamas and the UN don’t want the GHF sites shut down.

At least try to make your argument make a tiny bit of sense.

Anonimummy · 22/07/2025 14:13

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 22/07/2025 13:52

@AnonimummyNO, YOU don’t fool us.

Funnily enough. I’m not actually trying to, unlike others I could mention.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/07/2025 14:15

@Anonimummy
i literally just opened instagram and saw a video of a young Palestinian man being shot and killed by Israeli forces while live streaming from the port. A war crime.

call2actionnow - on instagram
‘He posed no threat, held no weapon, and approached no one. All he did was raise his phone to show the world what was happening- and for that, he was met with a bullet that ended his life.’

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