Anti-semitism in the UK

[Lolapusht]

Published yesterday I believe.

Evidence of anti-Semitism in the UK

Not sure if that link will work so…

https://x.com/nicolelampert/status/1944147294917439912?s=61&t=_cKTNp_TyAyzDViEOCJDFQ

You are justifying antisemitism, 'because israel'.

The difference between excuse and reason is when you have a choice.

@Hotchocolatebuns thankyou for the post. Yes I can understand this. It's definitely not fair if I suggest everyone is coming from a place of Anti Semitism.

Yet I ask, what happens if there's a ceasefire? What will happen next.

Is a religion, leading a large group of people, via a vehicle such as Hamas, going to sit back and say ' peace'? Are they?

There haven't. In the past 20 years there have been countless innocent Jews murdered in cold blood by Palestinians.

Here's a sample of 3 sets of siblings murdered in cold blood (separate occasions) while going about their daily lives. This was a daily occurrence in Israel.

Even if - and it's a big if - it's actually true that some Palestinian babies were shot by snipers, we're talking about single digit cases. So these are a few isolated war crimes, which should be persecuted. And they usually are in Israel, being as it's a law-abiding country.

How does a sane person compare that to the wholesale slaughter of Jews, sanctioned by the Gazan government, and perpetrated by the masses on Oct 7?

Nope, nope... does not compute.

Israeli = white, privileged, colonial, funded by US commercial interests, etc.

Gazan = "brown" (I quote actual posters!), desperately poor, enslaved by Israel (OK maybe Hamas, but that's nothing to do with them), underdog etc. And more dead. Therefore genocide, etc.

@Hotchocolatebuns

The International Court of Justice has said it’s plausible genocide could be taking place

It actually didn't. Educate yourself.

I can't be bothered debunking the rest of your lies because it's clear you're either unwilling or unable to see the truth.

Gaza has been unoccupied since 2005. It was a semi-autonomous Palestinian state, and could have been utopia. If only Gazans were more interested in building their own state than in annihilating Israel.

The International Court of Justice absolutely did say that genocide is plausible. In its January 26, 2024 ruling, the ICJ stated that some of the rights South Africa is claiming under the Genocide Convention are pplausible and that Palestinians face a “real risk of irreparable harm.” Based on that, the Court issued provisional measures ordering Israel to prevent any acts that could be genocidal, stop incitement, preserve evidence, and allow humanitarian aid into Gaza.

This doesn’t mean the ICJ has declared genocide is happening but it does mean they consider the charge serious and credible enough to investigate and to act on. This is straight from the Court’s own language, not opinion or exaggeration. It’s completely fair to reference this in discussions. Dismissing it as a lie without engaging with the ruling itself is just not honest debate.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. You're right to point out that not everyone criticising Israel is antisemitic, and it’s good to see that acknowledged.

You asked what would happen if there’s a ceasefire and I get the concern. But a ceasefire isn’t about trusting Hamas. It’s about stopping the mass killing of civilians and preventing more people from dying unnecessarily. Over 38,000 Palestinians have already been killed, probably more, most of them women and children. The WHO says Gaza’s health system has been systematically dismantled, and Human Rights Watch has said Israel is using starvation as a weapon of war which is obviously a war crime under international law.

Physically yes this is true but Israel has had control over Gazas external affairs and as such has always therefore been considered occupied. If you can debunk anything in the attachment with facts then Please do.

Sorry but this is just a lot of words, ifs, buts, and maybes that misses the wood for the trees.

Taking hostages is a warm crime
The 7 Oct was a war crime and a crime against humanity
Hiding behind civilians is a war crime

These protests and all who defend them rely on all this sophistry and whataboutery, but the evidence of our eyes and ears tells us that as they call this "resistance" and rip down hostsge posters, they actually support war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Opining on the maybes regarding israels conduct which will certainly be investigated and those responsible accountable, anyone actually interested in stopping war crimes would be outside every Saturday protesting Hamas and demanding the return of the hostages rather than applying a completely one sides critique of how Israel tries to get them back.

@Hotchocolatebuns How can you possibly know the motivation of the majority? What we do know is that they are happy to walk alongside open racists.

the ICJ has NOT said its a plausible genocide https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-68906919

I can well imagine that the general levels of anyisemitism in the population are increasing, because of the actions of the Israeli government. That exists and it has to be condemned clearly. you don't need to imagine the figures are available
https://cst.org.uk/research/cst-publications/antisemitic-incidents-2024
Its not because of the actions of tbe Israeli government though. Its because of the actions of racist people. Are you so glib about other forms of racism?

Are they really calling for accountability, or just accountability from Israel?

Total Number killed is 57,000 I understand.

@quantumbutterfly criticising the Israeli government is not antisemitism. Accusing people of justifying antisemitism just for calling out war crimes is unfair and shuts down real conversation. Yes, antisemitism is real and must be condemned but so is killing civilians, bombing hospitals, and starving a population. These are not mutually exclusive truths.

Many Jewish groups like Jewish Voice for Peace and Breaking the Silence are actively opposing what’s happening in Gaza. Are they antisemitic too? Of course not.

The majority of people protesting aren’t doing it because they hate Jews. They’re doing it because they’re watching a humanitarian catastrophe and calling for accountability. If we care about fighting antisemitism we need to be clear about the difference between hate and legitimate criticism of a government’s actions. Just my two cents.

I don't think you "get the concern" quite as much as you would if you were living in Israel, surrounded by such visceral hatred and explicit desire to destroy you with as much sadism as possible.

@PurpleChrayn I am so sorry that these things have happened to you and your family. I have contacted a Jewish friend that I haven't seen for about 10 years.no reason just life got in the way. It's an absolute joy to have her back in my life

For context of SA’s relationship with Iran, please see below.

They hosted Hamas leaders after 7 Oct and suddenly went from being on the point of insolvency to having plenty of money shortly after bringing charges of genocide against Israel. Please do draw your own conclusions.

https://issafrica.org/iss-today/iran-and-the-price-of-the-anc-s-nostalgia

@Hotchocolatebuns I can believe this isn't about anti Semitism for everyone. Anti-Semitism is a foundation, it's an undercurrent and be kind wallies are going to enable that undercurrent.

Ignoring the Oct 7 massacre of barbaric psychopathy. That is concerning to me. Protesting the next day in support of Palestine? What does this say about the brains of these people, so vast in numbers. Isn't that kind of Anti Semitic? Do we see other behaviours like this? When the Ukraine is battered by Russia, do we get protests the next day saying free Russia from the attacks of Ukraine? We know there are many innocent people in Russia indoctrinated into a system.

I believe some appalling things are happening across the board. I can't imagine what it's like for anyone at all over there.

Do I believe there's a fundamental desire to trample any other religion or any opposing voices to Islam? Yes. Do I believe that's the aim and desire of Hamas. Yes definitely. Do I believe people who are not Hamas who live there will go along with what they may have to, yes, of course they will. Or will go along with what they're indoctrinated into from BIRTH. Yes. I.Do. That will imo involve annihilation of dissenting voices. And you know who are in the written books as a big problem.......🤔

So people who are be kind need to get back in their lane and put tape over their hands and mouth for the most part. Because I believe there's absolutely no concept of the breadth of what they're asking for.

Asking for some accountability to incidents that constitute war crimes. Yes, I support that. The rest, no more.

There are way way too many people falling over themselves crying shouting FreePalestine and it's scary.

Has anyone seen the footage of that Welsh nurse crying hysterically about the peace of Islam to Egyptian security keeping him alive no doubt on his little jolly over there? Stop. Take your daughter's with you and see how that works out.

Yes. They participate in active antisemitism. Just like the Muslims and Black people who are part of Tommy Robinsons group.

Listen to the vast majority of Jewish people. Not a handful who are willing to go along with you.

@Beachtastic living in fear of violence and hatred is awful and I don’t want to dismiss that. So I’d ask you this: what do you call the deaths of over 38,000 people, most of them women and children? What do you call a siege where water, food, fuel, and medicine are blocked, hospitals are bombed, and entire families are wiped out in their homes? If that’s not visceral hatred, then what is?

At some point, we have to ask if the actions of the Israeli government now reflect the very thing they claim to be defending against? When you treat a whole population as a threat and collectively punish them, when ministers openly call for displacing civilians or dropping a nuclear bomb on Gaza, doesn’t that cross a moral line?

Let’s not forget the broader context either. Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank have lived under a system of apartheid, according to Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and Israeli NGOs like B’Tselem. Their homes are demolished, their land is taken, and they’re subjected to checkpoints, curfews, and military raids. Israel's own military doctrine has described past assaults on Gaza as mowing the grass, treating human lives like weeds to be cut down every few years.

Fear doesn’t justify cruelty. Security doesn’t justify starvation. And if we're against hate, it has to apply in all directions not just the one we're used to seeing.

Breakdown of number of fatalities in Gaza

https://henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/HJS-Questionable-Counting-%E2%80%93-Hamas-Report-web.pdf henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/HJS-Questionable-Counting-–-Hamas-Report-web.pdf]]]]

Yeah, exactly. Most of these people would change their tune quickly if it were them being denied existence.

One thing that struck me poignantly when I watched the NOVA documentary, was that as Hamas brutally murdered innocent teenagers they were laughing, and crying ALLAHU AKBAR, whilst the Israeli teenagers were quietly praying to their God to save them.

Hamas are part of a sick, racist, disgusting ideology and it's absolutely astonishing that average people in the UK are so brain rotted that they've parlayed a holy war of exterminating Jews into a just cause.

I didn't say that criticising the Israeli government is antisemitic, I said that antisemitism is not a response to the actions of the Israeli government that's an excuse used by those who were antisemites anyway.
Or would you justify anti-russian crimes because Putin, anti-chinese crimes because xi jinping?

You ask me what I'd call this. I'd call it a biased view. That "most of them [are] women and children" is hardly Israel's fault when Hamas positions itself in a way to maximise civilian casualties. You talk about the Israeli government "claiming to be" defending itself, as though their true motive must be something else (cynical land grab?). You talk of blockages to supplies as though Hamas plays no part at all in complicating this. You use the "collective punishment" slogan as though Israel should have found a more sensible solution, such as sitting down peacefully with Hamas and signing an agreement that they would stick to (to echo the dreams of a PP). You mention the foolish words of outspoken Israeli ministers as though Gazan authorities have never had a bad word to say about their darling neighbours in Israel. You talk about crossing a moral line as though only one side has done it.

The fact that you have engaged on a thread specifically about the visible rise of dangerous antisemitism in the UK, to trump about the "broader context" of "a system of apartheid" points to not just bias, but something else, I'm afraid.

As you say, "if we're against hate, it has to apply in all directions not just the one we're used to seeing."

' Fear doesn’t justify cruelty. Security doesn’t justify starvation. And if we're against hate, it has to apply in all directions not just the one we're used to seeing.'

So if everything is true ( I don't believe you're lying, I simply have not fact checked) then my take is - actually, fear justifies doing what it takes to make it incredibly clear that this region and those who are the only people ALONE geographically in it surrounded by Islamic countries in their plenty - will not be trampled to death by an ideology that wants to do exactly this.

I understand that a 2 state solution has been unworkable because of a desire to be the one over riding group and thus leading and dominating ideology. Those dissenters as referenced in the holy book, cannot be accepted and co habited with, in the view of one particular group. It's not the Jewish people I see having this issue. ( I haven't been there, I accept this may be a false hood in spite of what the Qur'an teaches and purports as a fundamental message - e.g my way or no way.) I'll be corrected happily.

Watching the capacity of Hamas and thousands of women, their kids and ordinary men dancing about laughing over barbarism- erm yes, that's a bit scary. Do I want that out of the sphere that is there for the 1 and only place Jewish people have as their homeland. Yes.

The Jewish people imo are actually hated by another group who are taught this and have this indoctrinated. I see actions which demonstrate something significantly more concerning by way of intent. The intent is the driver of fear. And it is valid.

And many innocent Palestinian people will have to go along with what they might think isn't right. ( The gleeful parties over dead babies).

They'll go along with what they have to because they'll lose their heads over there I imagine if they don't. So in terms of scale, it's huge. And bekind are ignoring all of this.