Anti-semitism in the UK

[Lolapusht]

Published yesterday I believe.

Evidence of anti-Semitism in the UK

Not sure if that link will work so…

https://x.com/nicolelampert/status/1944147294917439912?s=61&t=_cKTNp_TyAyzDViEOCJDFQ

You're speaking about hypothetical threats while actual atrocities unfold.

You think the massacre of October 7th was a 'hypothetical threat'?

I happen to agree with you.

I read a book some time ago describing the Rwandan genocide and breasts being sliced off with other horrors that I just can't imagine.

I do accept that not every person saying they don't like Israel's action is automatically Anti Semitic. You have however highlighted the problem when there is what looks very much like a downplay or a justification or explanation. And a face turns away and says look at these victims and I'm going to scream and shout about it all over the place.

I see a land of people saying, we are stood alone here, in the middle of a region that actively despises us. And look what history has done and enabled against us. And people are starting to do it again. I agree with your reflection.

Read the posts. Obviously the pp isn’t talking about October 7th.

No, I know she wasn't. She appeared to be completely ignoring it while going on about how there was no threat to Israel from Palestine, that suggestions that they pose a threat are merely 'thought experiments' and 'hypothetical threats'. Despite the massacre. Despite the bombs. Despite the rockets.

@Hotchocolatebuns Just out of interest, why do YOU think hospitals have been bombed? And why do you dismiss the threats to Israel as "hypothetical" when they have been demonstrated so clearly, with the promise of plenty more where that came from?

Excellent post. If people had more empathy and understanding civilians wouldn't be being killed in Gaza and Anti semitism would be on the rise here and I’m assuming in other countries too. Innocents are just that Innocent

This is getting silly now.

You are the one justifying mass killing by repeatedly telling everyone to view Oct 7 through the context of opression, which is very selectively applied.

You seem to spend page after page navel gazing about a myriad of excuses and defences for the Oct 7 massacre whilst seemingly being completely unable to apply "context" to israels response.

Not a single country on earth would allow that to happen without getting their people back and making bloody sure it didnt happen again.

Saying Palestinians might trample Israelis if they could is not a "thought experiment". The literal government of Gaza openly say that is exactly what they'd do, and just in case you doubt them, they've given you a taster and took the time to show you videos.

Your argument is that there's a peaceful and innocent majority? We don't know that, and based on availabile evidence that's unlikely to be true but let's pretend it is.

What we know for absolute certain is that the hypothetical peaceful majority couldn't or didn't stop Oct 7.

Not a single person warned anyone
Not a single person helped a hostage escape
Not a single person saved a life that day

So the peaceful majority have proven they either can't or will not stop the murderous rampages of the ones who want to commit them.

You know, it's weird. When the BBC did that documentary about children in Gaza and it turned out the narrator was the son of a Hamas minister, and there were photos of another child involved in the documentary holding a gun and with a Hamas terrorist's arm around him.

People were saying that of course these kids had links to Hamas because Hamas is so prolific in Gaza that it would have been impossible for the BBC to find anyone for the documentary who didn't have links to them.

Now it is a country of innocents and no one is anything to do with Hamas. No threat to Israel at all.

One wonders who is holding the hostages and firing the rockets.

No one is calling October 7 a hypothetical threat. It was a horrifying massacre and should be condemned fully. But using it to justify the relentless, ongoing destruction of Gaza is not justice, it’s collective punishment, and it violates every principle of proportionality and international law.

Over 38,000 people have been killed in Gaza, the majority women and children. Save the Children reports over 14,000 children dead. The average age of the dead is just 18. Whole families have been wiped out. Thousands of bodies remain under the rubble. And while the world debates, children are dying of hunger and dehydration. Gaza’s healthcare system has been destroyed, doctors are operating without anaesthetic. Babies have died in incubators when the power failed.

And all of this has happened largely out of sight. Israel has banned foreign journalists from entering Gaza for the duration of the war, cutting off independent coverage. What little we see comes from brave Palestinian journalists on the ground, many of whom have been killed. According to the Committee to Protect Journalists, more journalists have been killed in this war than in any conflict in recent history. Some have stated that journalist have been specifically targetted.

This lack of access isn’t accidental. Accountability becomes impossible whe no press is allowed in to independently verify or witness hospitals being bombed, entire city blocks levelled, aid convoys astruck. It’s a way to shield potential war crimes from scrutiny. The leaflets dropped before bombing are not a safeguard when the “safe zones” are bombed anyway. When people are told to evacuate and then the roads out are hit, it isn’t evacuation, it’s entrapment.

This is not a war being fought within the rules. It’s one where the laws of war, (distinction, proportionality, protection of civilians) are not being upheld.

No one is calling October 7 a hypothetical threat.

So you agree that there is an actual threat to Israel from Palestine?

What is going on in Gaza is absolutely abhorrent, but pretending it is merely a massacre of innocents and no one is fighting back or holding hostages and that actually Palestine and Israel could would simply get along and there would be peace in the Middle East if Israel packed it in is just silly.

I have seen footage of a Hamas barbarian calling daddy to seek the acclaim and honour he will receive in the slaughter of multiple Jews partying at a Festival. Did I imagine the bit where dad and mum are cheering in insane glee over the phone back to him. I need to go find the source again. Messed up.

The intent and place of that intent will always unsettle me immeasurably more than much else I see.

Yes, there is a threat. But the existence of a threat does not justify a total war on a captive civilian population. The idea that Palestinian violence exists in a vacuum is ahistorical. It ignores decades of occupation, blockade, dispossession, and the denial of rights. That context does not excuse atrocities, but it does explain them.

What is happening now is not defence, it is devastation. Tens of thousands dead, over 14,000 of them children. More than 6,000 under the age of five, according to Save the Children. Gaza’s hospitals are non-functional. Doctors operate without anaesthetic. Children have died of starvation and dehydration. Families are being bombed in areas they were told were safe. Journalists are banned, foreign media blocked, and those who remain in Gaza have been killed at unprecedented rates. This is not proportional. It is not humane. It is not legal.

And no, Israel does not have the right to maintain apartheid or indefinite occupation. No state on earth has the right to imprison an entire population, seize land, control borders, deny return, and still be immune from resistance. That does not mean anyone wants violence to continue. It means real peace demands real justice.

If you think there can be peace without addressing the daily structural violence Palestinians live under, you are asking for submission, not coexistence.

It’s obvious you mean no real harm but please reduce the name-calling if you can. So far you have called pro-Palestine supporters:

• “Middle class white annoying idiots”
• ”Pinheads”
• ”Braindeads”
• ”Pinheads” (again)
• ”Be kind morons”
• Lunatics (“lunacy of protesters”)
• ”Lost incompetent fools”
• ”Western morons”
• ”Be kind wallies”
• ”Protesting ignoramuses”

It’s completely okay for you to choose a side and have your own opinions on the conflict but they can be expressed in a respectful way, as others on this thread (in pretty heavy disagreements!) have displayed.

(I know you mentioned earlier that your insults weren’t directed at posters here but as some of us have attended or supported the general message of the protests, it’s hard to feel like they aren’t being sent our way 💓)

So there IS a threat and your proposed resolution to the problem is for Israel to either remove the blockade allowing import of unfettered weapons or for them to relinquish their independence entirely - amd hand power - including control of their military and weapons to the group who present a threat.

I'm going to pour myself a whisky.

@Hotchocolatebuns I wonder how much the ban on foreign journalists is to do with what could happen to them? Not on your life would you get me, as a woman, presenting as I do, anywhere near this if I was a journalist.

Is there any viability to that part?

We also have an exceptional disproportionate response underway here. How much worse could that disproportionate response be if the media are in there. The nation leans significantly towards free Palestine, imo to the detriment of others. A festival of people were singing ' Def to IDF'. I don't trust people in this when we have a leaning like this. And the media we have. It's hard to know what to believe. What would that further embolden.

I've just seen an Al Jazeera journalist ( Western presenting woman) challenged excellently by Douglas Murray during her interview. He is correcting her false facts regarding why Hamas massacred people. So it's potentially pretty dangerous to me with the things unfolding right now.

I will guess the reason told and sold is because Israel are hiding their brutality?

@brieandcrackers yes, I agree. It isn't helpful to constructive debate. I will definitely reframe that language away from insults that would directly impact posters.

It seems that the Middle East Peace Process can be solved by simply wishing that everyone gets along.

Reading this thread I'm reminded of the phrase 'the banality of evil'.

Yes, that was Mahmoud, who was gloating over having killed 10 Jews with his own hands. He said he was calling from the phone of a Jewish woman he had just murdered, along with her husband: "Mom, your son is a hero!" He urged his parents to check his WhatsApp for photos of the victims. His mother said, “I wish I was there with you,” and his father rejoiced, “May God protect you."

So, not just a random rogue psychopath, but an entire a culture where this sort of thing is openly applauded and rewarded. It boggles the mind.

Sadly, I don't share PPs' wishful thinking about how lovely it would all for everyone be if only Israel stopped being such whining bullies.

https://globalnews.ca/news/10046530/israel-call-your-son-killed-jews/

Funny thing about invoking “the banality of evil” while watching tens of thousands die and still finding ways to justify it - you kind of become the definition.

That phrase wasn’t meant to describe people resisting mass killing, but the quiet, bureaucratic normalisation of it. The shrug. The “well, it’s complicated.” The idea that flattening cities and starving children is unfortunate, but ultimately necessary.

This is not a war being fought within the rules. It’s one where the laws of war, (distinction, proportionality, protection of civilians) are not being upheld.

Do you make any allowance for Hamas not following the rules either (e.g. protection of civilians - especially their own)?

Everyone just needs to de-escalate…

No, silly, Hamas doesn’t need to follow the same rules - they’re oppressed!

This comment is really inappropriate

Call me a cynic but I don't believe most people who say they think everyone should just live happily and peacefully together. Largely because the people who say that spend their Saturdays in "solidarity," with people doing nazi salutes that are so beset with prejudice that they rip down posters of child hostages. And also because when people share their experiences of the most horrid antisemitism they sneer and dismiss it or justify it.

I think they're just at a point where Jews are dehumanised enough, through means of propaganda and the same techniques that have worked for thousands of years that they simply don't care. The arguments they make, are obviously not logical once you follow them through.

i think they think if Israel is annihilated everyone will be better off. I think that's the thought chain that preceded every pogrum. It relies on them believing israelis are horribly evil and so on.