Anti-semitism in the UK

[Lolapusht]

Published yesterday I believe.

Evidence of anti-Semitism in the UK

Not sure if that link will work so…

https://x.com/nicolelampert/status/1944147294917439912?s=61&t=_cKTNp_TyAyzDViEOCJDFQ

Read the article.

You have missed the whole point of my post and seen fit to insult as a result. I’m aware people attempt to ‘hide in plain site’ with their use of language but that’s got nothing to do with my post. You have completely missed the point . My post related to them not being the same thing and as such shouldn’t be switched about.

You've said it so eloquently. This is exactly how I see it.

Too many people are not living the reality of this. Or aware of the reality as outlined by posters here regards what they are experiencing in this country day to day.

One group is potentially always going to want to dominate another. One has a history of trampling to death any opposing voice or lifestyle.

When I watched the Nova Festival, I saw people who at first I was a bit envious of. I saw a group of people living a free life, having an amazing experience, living in a liberal minded way quite apparent in the film. I knew these principles would sicken all surrounding people to their core, not just Hamas either. It opposes the fundamentals indoctrinated at birth.

No one wants to play nicely and share from everything I see. I don't buy it.

I don't know how to ' manage' behaviour that is into war crime territory from the IDF. I'm out my depth on it. I'm not protesting about those things I don't understand; unlike thousands who will.

I like Douglas Murray - I'm almost finished his book. Yes he has bias being openly gay! I don't blame the man. He has made references to the Mein Kampf and Nazi propaganda support himself. I need to go find it and see if there's substantial evidence to support that claim.

So the conversation that you posted in the middle of where a poster claimed that Zionists are controlling our government - do you believe that is a case of hiding antisemitism in plain sight or not?

I'm sorry but talking to you is completely pointless. Everything is twisted with constant false equivalence and misdirection.

Jews live with 2 million Arabs who are religiously and ethnically indistinct from the citizens of Gaza. They come to no harm.

The reason those particular Arabs are being killed is because they started a war with one of the most brutal massacres in history and have Israeli hostages that they will not release. They also refuse to seperate their military from their civilians which is a war crime.

When you fire rockets at the country next door and openly and in a demonstrated way represent an existential threat to their population, they will stop you. There's no freedom that exists in western moral framework that is "freedom to annihlate".

👏

If it’s pointless, it’s because you’re refusing to engage with the basic reality that not all Palestinians are Hamas, and collective punishment is not justified by the actions of a few. Saying Jews live peacefully with Arabs in Israel proves coexistence is possible, so why deny Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank the same rights?

You say Palestinians started a war, but overlook decades of occupation, siege, and dispossession. None of that excuses Hamas’s crimes, but it does explain why people resist. And Israel’s military campaign has killed tens of thousands, including thousands of children. That isn’t just “stopping” a threat, it’s devastation on a scale that goes far beyond self-defence.

If “freedom to annihilate” doesn’t exist in a western moral framework, then neither should impunity for bombing entire residential blocks or starving a civilian population. You cant have it both ways.

It’s telling that you express empathy for the victims of Nova, as any decent person should, but extend none to the civilians in Gaza who are being massacred in far greater numbers. If you're moved by the sight of young people dancing freely, why not feel the same horror watching children pulled from rubble, entire families wiped out, or people denied food and medicine? That is the reality too. You can’t dismiss it just because it makes things more morally complicated.

As for the idea that freedom and coexistence are impossible because of Palestinian culture, that’s not analysis, it’s prejudice. It's the same logic once used to justify apartheid, colonisation, or slavery. It paints millions of people with a single brush and robs them of the chance to be seen as human beings with their own complexities, just like anyone else.

I understand and you're admirable for being open minded on issues and asking questions.

What struck me about the videos of the nova festival is that there was absolutely no reason Gazans couldn't choose to have been having a big party that day.

People talk a lot about their deprivation but actually stuff like who controls your airspace doesn't affect most people's life.

They were lead by oppressive, religious nutjob psychopaths who had done absolutely nothing in twenty years for those people. They made themselves and their families very rich and that was it.

Those young men were gleeful that day. Knowing they weren't going to any real war, but to murder unarmed people, many just kids really.

They knew how Israel would react, but it was never an attempt to win by killing. They just knew if they committed an atrocity so horrific, driving nails into the vaginas of girls, burning families alive, not even sparing the family dogs... that Israel would retaliate.

They had their booby traps set up in advance, they had places to hide, they had locations for hostages pre arranged. And while I have no proof I'd be unsurprised if they were involved in having the Israel hating mobs ready to go too.

Their war aim was to provoke Israel into harsh action, to do everything they could to ensure as many civilians got killed as possible and to use it as a way to get the west to delegitimise Israel.

They've done well.

Let's not praise psychopaths. They played a long game but I think their excesses have shaken potential allies in stable Arab countries and certainly opened more eyes to exactly why their borders are so tightly controlled.

You did not answer my questions about how Mizrachi Jews might feel about a bi-national state. I saw apartheid at its high tide and believe me, how things are run in Israel is not apartheid. Under apartheid, for example, there were no on-whites in parliament, whereas there are Arab members of the Knesset. Under apartheid, there were separate doors to public buildings for whites and non-whites. You don't see that in Israel.

And no, of course the current situation isn't just. A two state solution sounds like the most feasible answer, and Israel has offered variants on it repeatedly. As time has gone on, the West Bank settlements make it look less possible - though Israel could do there as it did with Gaza, and remove all the Jews.

I remain puzzled as to why the Palestinians, of all the populations displaced in the great upheavals in the tumultuous times after WWII, remain as refugees, whereas other populations do not. India and Pakistan effectively exchanged huge numbers of people (with a great deal of chaos and bloodshed) and they were resettled. Ethnic Germans were chucked out of countries around Europe where their families has resided for centuries, and they were resettled.

This did not happen to the Palestinians; instead, the situation has been allowed to fester. The surrounding Arab states, despite ejecting (with varying degrees of force) many of their own Jewish populations, and taking their property and assets, refused to give them citizenship, or offer them statehood anywhere. Jordan controlled the West Bank for 22 years. No Palestinian state was forthcoming then, was it?.

But to be honest, I have no idea why I'm talking about all of this on a thread that was started to discuss antisemitism in the UK. Perhaps we should look at that, at why it is that when Muslims as a group are identified with Islamic extremism, there is a lot of (justified) righteous anger, yet when Jews are identified as being to blame for events in Gaza, and suffer not anti-Israel abuse but specifically anti-Jewish abuse, well, it's all about Israel....

Which makes it no surprise that many Jews then conflate all anti-Israel sentiment with antisemitism, because that is how it looks to them.

This is it. Nothing that was done on that day was 'normal' resistance. It was barbaric and utterly depraved. Any oppressed people will 'resist'. Noone is forced by any situation to behave the way they did. It goes well beyond the normal behaviour of aggressive men pumped up on anger and adrenaline, who exist in all.societies. Those excusing it and minimising it are incomprehensible.

Gaza is not starving. There is no famine. There is absolutely hunger and malnutrition, but there is not starvation. There is food and there always has been food, it just isn’t distributed fairly amongst the Gazans (by Hamas and the other gangs who have profited from the war).

Aid convoys are attacked by Hamas.

Hospitals are bombed because Hamas uses them thereby making them legitimate military targets.

Hamas traps civilians and uses the spaces where they are trapped to run military operations and store munitions etc.

Hamas run around in civilian clothing UNTIL they’re releasing hostages or parading children’s’ coffins around when they all pop on their newly laundered uniforms, before driving around in their nice new shiny vehicles so they can stand in front of the really big and newly printed back drop decrying Israel’s brutal treatment of them as they’re filmed holding their guns by lots of cameramen operating expensive looking camera kit.

All very oppressed.

Ascribing Palestinians’ desire to kills Jews to their treatment by Israel is naive at best and obstructive at worst. It removes autonomy from one side and hinders progress. The Palestinians can’t do anything else but resist Israel’s barbarity. You don’t want a big fence with armed guards? Stop sending suicide bombers (some of whom are children) to kill the people on the other side of that fence. You don’t want goods being stopped from coming in then stop using them in furtherance of your oft stated endgame of annihilating the people stopping those goods coming to you.

There is not going to be “peace” as is being described here any time soon. At least not within a generation on either side. Hamas knew what it would get after 7 Oct and it still went ahead. Everything you’re decrying here is exactly what Hamas wanted. They wanted the destruction and the fatalities. All the cries for proportionality and deescalation and negotiation is what Hamas should have tried instead of bulldozing the fence.

Israel isn’t perfect and I don’t agree with everything it does, but they are living on the front line. Their enemy isn’t at the door, it’s in the house already. Why do they have conscription and the Iron Dome and bomb shelters? We don’t have those, because we’re not surrounded by thousands of people who have sworn to kill us and who have repeatedly demonstrated they will kill themselves to achieve that aim.

If it’s legitimate for Palestine to carry out attacks against Israel because of its attacks, then it’s legitimate for Israel to attack the countries attacking it. Unless, of course, you want Israel to put down it’s weapons at which point it ceases to exist and we can all just go home as the one state solution will have been introduced.

This is a good discussion of the current situation.

👏👏👏👏
And I admire your patience.

It's the deliberate savagery that's so hard to stomach, maximising distress not only for the victims but for their families (e.g. screentiming their agonising deaths, making loved ones watch torture and sadistic killings). You only have to see the faces of the villagers swarming through the border fences on 7 Oct to see they can't wait to get their hands on a few Jews - maybe not least because in their culture, killing Jews is a bit like winning the X Factor in terms of the status it gives them as local heroes. And these are the people that a PP so eloquently describes as though they just want to play nicely alongside their Israeli neighbours, if only they had been given half a chance.

I mean, they would have won hearts and minds (including mine) if they had paraglided into the festival and joined in. They would have been welcomed with open arms. Instead of which...

As we leaent from the celebrations and heroes welcome that they streamed for us when they got home. I honestly don't know what people thinking when they expect Israel to open their borders to them. Especially as they have had to release so many convicted criminals per each hostage.

you’re refusing to engage with the basic reality that not all Palestinians are Hamas
Literally posted several times on this thread that Hamas opress their population so you're making an obviously false statement. I've referred to Palestinians and Hamas distinctly throughout.

Collective punishment is not justified by the actions of a few.
No matter what country you live in, if your country starts a war, your country is at war.

Saying Jews live peacefully with Arabs in Israel proves coexistence is possible, so why deny Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank the same rights?
Israel doesn't decide what rights people who don't live in Israel get as a broad rule. If you'd like them to form a government, perform a coup and impose a western democracy with western style human rights you'd need to make an argument for that.

Israel has a blockade on Gaza, as does Egypt, because Hamas presents an existential threat but Israel does not decide what rights Gazans have, Hamas do.

The west bank is much more complex. Israel controls parts of the West Bank due to its military occupation since 1967, prior to that it was occupied by Jordan. A peace deal was never reached, so this temporary arrangement became the status quo, giving Israel continued legal and security control over large parts of the territory.

The Oslo Accords divided the area into zones with differing levels of Israeli and Palestinian control. Area is under full Israeli authority, including 450,000 Israeli settlers.

The Israeli settlers do have different rights, they are subject to Israeli law etc. They vote in Israeli elections, use Israeli infrastructure, and receive government services like healthcare, schools, and police protection. Palestinians get those things from the Palestinian Authority.

Is that a little unfair? Maybe, but by comparison in area A controlled fully by the Palestinians has zero Jews in it, Jews cannot live, vote, buy land, or establish settlements in Area A and are legally barred from even entering as they'd probably be murdered.

You can make an argument that Jews should remove all settlers from the west bank in exchange for peace, but while I strongly condemn settlers violence and the unfair treatment of Palestinians, I can also tell you that doing that didn't work out too well in Gaza.

You say Palestinians started a war, but overlook decades of occupation, siege, and dispossession.
right before the british took control, Jews were occupied in their homeland and they were made legally subordinate to the Muslim population and 850k of them were ethnically cleansed from the Arab world. They managed to live peacefully with Arabs and have as you pointed out yourself fostered peace deals with arab states. They have demonstrated that they want peace and have taken meaningful steps to demonstrate some goodwill but if those in charge if Gaza persist with threatening their existence and security by starting wars then nothing will progress.

None of that excuses Hamas’s crimes, but it does explain why people resist.
They dont need to resist. All they had to do in order for the blockade on them to be removed was to stop attacking Israel. What they are resisting in point of fact, is Israels existence.

And Israel’s military campaign has killed tens of thousands, including thousands of children. That isn’t just “stopping” a threat, it’s devastation on a scale that goes far beyond self-defence.
Hamas could have ended it any day they wanted, or put their civilians in safe positions. They are 100% to blame.

If “freedom to annihilate” doesn’t exist in a western moral framework, then neither should impunity for bombing entire residential blocks or starving a civilian population. You cant have it both ways.
I don't think you know what having it both ways means, but no, you cannot legally try and annihilate another country and if you do, yes, they can bomb residential blocks providing they follow the relevant laws of war. No you cannot legally starve a civilian population, but people do go hungry in war, it's part of war. Israel seems to be working with the Americans on ensuring food is delivered. It seems like it's not enough but I've seen indications it's increasing and a lot of resources are being put into it. Great shame the UN will only work with Hamas to feed Palestinians. Says it all really!

Yes there is some truth in your post. In that I am not actively seeking out evidence and examples to show me what's happening to the Palestinian people.

There's an issue too regarding relatability and what I can much more comfortably relate to and align with. It's the Jewish Israeli people.

I also see a group who I believe are also vulnerable. I see this within the Jewish community tbh.

They might not be trampled outside of Nova in ways these Palestinians people are. But I believe they'd be trampled to death quite happily if the power and means to do it were enabled.

And there is a huge element feeding it for me which is that which represents an ideology and system I really don't like, for very valid reasons, that's demonstrably very different to others. That actually celebrates death so in comparison everyone is vulnerable by the fact their own death isn't celebrated and therefore a weapon no one else has to employ.

I'm lumping victims of their own regime in under one umbrella. It's not right at times to do this.

If the IDF didn't go hard ( horrible phrase I apologise), what would happen. Is it prejudice of me to have a particular idea that is the focus of my mind on this possible outcome - more than thinking of other victims?

It's very detached of me. I rather admit this than be a protesting ignoramus. Yes I've seen enough to believe a gigantic proportion out there are just that.

I don't think Hamas were even opressed, they were the oppressors! If anyone was going to be resisting I don't understand why it shouldn't have been Gazan people resisting their ductstirs who controlled their every move and tortured anyone who spoke up.

But yes, I agree, the violence on that day was really abnormal even for a terror attack.

There's footage of a young lady snapped and twisted into position that speaks of unfathomable torture.

You can ' see' this just looking at her body. And you can see the psychopathic glee in the eyes of the barbarians driving away with her body like that

It's etched in my mind forever.

Several of your points need more careful consideration.

First, Mizrahi Jews do not form a monolithic group, and many have long experienced discrimination within Israeli society. Historically, Mizrahim were treated as second-class citizens by the Ashkenazi dominated establishment. They were often placed in peripheral towns with fewer resources, given inferior education, and stereotyped in media and politics. To this day, Mizrahi Jews are underrepresented in elite institutions and overrepresented in poorer regions of the country. This inequality is well documented, and many Mizrahi activists speak openly about it.

Separately, Ethiopian Jews have faced severe institutional racism. One of the most shocking examples came to light recently when an Israeli investigative report revealed that Ethiopian women were systematically administered Depo-Provera, a long-acting birth control injection, without proper consent before or upon arrival in Israel. The result was a drastic drop in birth rates among the Ethiopian population, raising serious human rights concerns. The Israeli government later acknowledged the practice and promised to stop it. Yet even today, Ethiopian Israelis continue to protest against police brutality, employment discrimination, and social exclusion.

On the claim that Israel cannot be apartheid because Arabs sit in the Knesset, this overlooks the broader structural reality. Apartheid is not defined just by visible segregation or absence from government. It's about systemic control. Millions of Palestinians live under Israeli rule but cannot vote in Israeli elections, cannot move freely, are tried under military law, and are denied basic rights. Meanwhile, Jewish settlers living in the same areas enjoy full citizenship, civilian courts, and freedom of movement. This is exactly why groups like B’Tselem, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch have all concluded that Israel’s system meets the legal definition of apartheid.

As for the refugee situation, yes, Arab states failed the Palestinians in many ways, but that doesnt erase Israel's role in displacing them or maintaining the current conditions through occupation and siege. Palestinian statelessness wasn’t just a regional failure, it was also the result of Israel’s policies of exclusion, land confiscation, and military control.

Finally, on antisemitism, of course it must be taken seriously. But conflating all criticism of Israel with antisemitism is both inaccurate and harmful. It shuts down legitimate debate and delegitimises even Jewish voices who are critical of Israeli policy.

There's been events if similar sadistic horror in the past. In the Rwandan genocide, the Armenian, the Yazidis, the Bosnian.

What strikes me though is that history is full of pogroms where Jews were not just murdered, but mutilated, raped, and tortured in sadistic ways.

Kishnikov (spelling??) Jewish babies were smashed against walls to kill then, women were raped and had their breasts cut off, men were hacked to death and the families were made to watch.

Lviv, Jews were forced to eat excrement, raped in front of crowds, and thrown into pits to die. Women and children included.

Baghdad, Women were raped, mutilated, had their breasts cut off, and were paraded through the streets. Children were thrown into the river. Pregnant women disembowelled. Nazi-inspired mobs, cheered on.

The Holocaust, Jews were gassed, yes, but also burned alive, buried alive, flayed, raped, humiliated, experimented on, and systematically dehumanised.

Every single one of those situations was cheered on by the crowd just as Oct 7 has been. Storied told about why they deserved it. A build up f years of propaganda to basically dehumanise them to such an extent that otherwise moralistic people would join in or look away

October 7 was not an anomaly. It was a reminder of what happens when antisemitism fester and I'm so troubled by it happening here in the UK and by the fact regular citizens tie themselves in knots not only to justify it but to somehow make one of the most twisted arguments I've ever heard.

Which essentially seems to be that Jews need to not only accept people murdering them, but not even take steps to prevent then doing that (which they frame as opression) and must give up their own security to voluntarily give power to a population that fairly hates them and celebrated them being brutally murdered.

And apparently any Jewish person in the UK who doesn't go along with this, should be ostracised and spat at, by people who have christened themselves "anti racists".

Our society is deeply in trouble, that's what I see.

I did. Well as much as I could as it’s behind a paywall. The clue is in the date of that article. 2002.! Voxon said it IS a best seller in Gaza. It’s 2025 now! Now I appreciate the bookshops are probably all gone now but an article dated 23 years ago doesn’t constitute anything happening now or even recently. So. The post is wrong. I haven’t seen proof to the contrary.

You describe yourself as reflecting, but what youre really doing is justifying mass killing. Saying Palestinians might trample Israelis if they could is a thought experiment used to excuse what is actually happening now. Tens of thousands have been killed, whole families erased, children buried under rubble, and people starved by policy. This is not a defensive war, its a campaign of destruction.

You're speaking about hypothetical threats while actual atrocities unfold. Gaza is not a faceless regime, its home to over two million people, most of them refugees and nearly half of them children. They didnt start this war. They are not soldiers. They have no way to escape. They are being punished for existing in the wrong place.

If you are concerned about people celebrating death, then look at who controls the skies. Look at who drops leaflets warning people to flee, knowing full well there is nowhere to go, and then bombs those same areas anyway. Look at who seals the borders, withholds aid, targets hospitals and civilian homes, and then blames the victims. This is not about eliminating a military threat. It is about breaking a people who have already lost nearly everything.

Yes to feeling empathy, but dont draw a border around who gets to be mourned.