Anti-semitism in the UK

[Lolapusht]

Published yesterday I believe.

Evidence of anti-Semitism in the UK

Not sure if that link will work so…

https://x.com/nicolelampert/status/1944147294917439912?s=61&t=_cKTNp_TyAyzDViEOCJDFQ

That’s a fair question to raise, and safety for journalists in war zones is a real concern but it’s not the whole picture.

Journalists routinely report from incredibly dangerous places, including areas controlled by groups like ISIS or the Taliban. Many do so knowing the risks, because bearing witness matters. The key difference is that in most war zones, independent journalists are allowed to try. In Gaza, Israel has made that decision for them by imposing an explicit ban on all foreign press from entering at all, even under escort. That is not standard practice.

This is not about protecting journalists from Hamas. It’s about denying outside eyes access. Israeli journalists are also largely barred from entering Gaza. That restriction has been heavily criticised by international press freedom organisations, including Reporters Without Borders and the Committee to Protect Journalists. They’ve noted that media blackouts in conflict zones tend to correlate with war crimes.

And you're right to be concerned about disinformation, but blocking journalists doesn’t solve that, it makes it worse. When only one side controls the narrative and the images allowed out, trust erodes further.

The idea that sympathy for Palestinian civilians means a rejection of all nuance is just not true. Many of us can condemn Hamas unequivocally and still believe that mass civilian death, hunger, and devastation are not justified responses.

Journalists have repeatedly pressed to be allowed into Gaza. Journalists are well aware of the risks of working in a war zone. Whichever side of the argument you stand on, I think it is a huge mistake that Israel haven't allowed Journalists in to Gaza.

Which journalists would they let in? The BBC that has had to apologise on 15 seperate occasions for anti Israel bias, including sharing completely false stories or passing off a hamas PR film as a "documentary"?

Or will they do what journalists do and link up with correspondents "on the ground" who are by definition Hamas supporters because Hamas does not have free press so "journalism" is essentially pro hamas propaganda.

I am not suprised if Israel doesn't trust the press to be honest, because they absolutely haven't been. Most are just as biased as the people on these boards, not trying to evaluate information for veracity but instead just spreading sensationalist claims.

Assuming there is an unbiased journalist, of which I can't really think of any, even the ones who are "pro Israel" are themselves guilty of bias. And journalists don't eye witness things. So what new info will they be getting in Gaza? Just more bull shit.

I've seen videos of Gazans speaking out against Hamas, of them saying Hamas is opressing them. I've seen Hamas threatening to kill or harm anyone who takes food from Israel and watched them torturing innocent people for doing it. Ive seen many,many videos and posts from Arab israelis saying they are not living in apartied and absolutely none of it makes the news.

They don't want to tell that story. It's not what sells newspapers or attracts viewers. What viewers want to fulfill their lust is story after story if how evil Israel is and that's how media works. I think that's probably why people want journalists there, so they can consume more and more.

But this is a conflict where everyone has a smartphone and the most common thing you'll see anywhere on social media is Gaza, Gaza Gaza. Everything bad Israel does is broadcast, and everything bad they didn't do too. I remember one story was saying Israel had trained dogs to rape Palestinians.

Anyone with even a hope of giving a rounded picture wouldn't be allowed to. During the last conflict several journalists said they were threatened by Hamas and instructed to only report on things flattering to them. Makes you wonder how Hamas treat their own journalists.

And if all that isn't enough, Israel couldn't keep them safe, so when they're inevitably killed who'd get the blame? Meany old Israel.

Honestly if I were Israel I'd accept they were subject to the biggest disinformation campaign anywhere in the world and that the conflict was best served by facts being presented by qualified investigators, as they are currently being.

And you still haven't answered the question...
I'm aware that Mizrachi Jews are not a monolithic block, but still... I strongly suspect that many of then would not been keen to once again find their families under Arab control.

Millions of Palestinians live under Israeli rule but cannot vote in Israeli elections, cannot move freely, are tried under military law, and are denied basic rights. Meanwhile, Jewish settlers living in the same areas enjoy full citizenship, civilian courts, and freedom of movement.
Thos millions of Palestinians, however, are not Israeli citizens. And there are areas of the West Bank where Jewish settlers cannot live - though Arab citizens of Israel live all over the country.

Palestinian statelessness wasn’t just a regional failure, it was also the result of Israel’s policies of exclusion, land confiscation, and military control.
It can equally be argued that the policies of exclusion etc were sparked by the failure of the Arab states to put pressure on the Palestinians to come to a two-state solution - instead of which there was the Intifada which, exactly as might have been predicted, caused a tightening of Israeli control.

But conflating all criticism of Israel with antisemitism is both inaccurate and harmful.
But look what has happened on this thread. It was started to discuss antisemitism in the UK. From page 1, it's been diverted onto Gaza/Israel/ 'genocide'/'apartheid'.

You think all the journalists will be 'meany' to Israel if they were allowed into Gaza and witnessed what Israel has been preventing them from seeing by denying access?

I’ve laid out my perspective clearly and with sources, and I notice you’ve chosen to overlook key parts of what I’ve said. You’ve entirely sidestepped the real discrimination faced by both Mizrahi and Ethiopian Jews within Israel itself, which is well-documented. That is not a footnote in this conversation, it speaks directly to the injustice at the heart of the system.

I don’t need to keep explaining when the truth is plain. Palestinians are owed freedom and dignity. No one has the right to gatekeep that. Not Israel, not anyone.

Best comment yet 😂

But you appeared to be posting in the middle of a conversation where someone was using Zionist when it could obviously be replaced with Jew to make a common antisemitic trope.

Were you just randomly posting about how they couldn't be interchanged, nothing to do with the discussion you were posting in the middle of?

You seem to completely sidestep the problem of Hamas with your discussions. Like they exist entirely separately to Palestine and probably in an entirely different place.

“Palestinians are owed freedom and dignity…unless you’re gay in which care you’ll be thrown off a building”.

Who owes them freedom and do you even know what a Palestinians idea of freedom is?

All sounds a bit western saviour 🤔

I haven’t sidestepped anything. I just reject the idea that Palestinians must prove themselves worthy of basic rights by distancing themselves from Hamas, as if they’re all personally responsible. That framing is dehumanising. Palestinians are not collectively Hamas, any more than all Israelis are collectively their government or military.

We don’t apply this logic to any other population. No one says civilians elsewhere should be starved, bombed, or stripped of dignity because of who controls their borders. But that’s exactly what’s happening in Gaza.

What I’m speaking to is the collective punishment of an entire people, over two million people, half of them children, treated as guilty by association. That’s not justice. It’s an atrocity, and it cannot be excused. Palestinians are owed freedom, safety, and dignity, not someday, not conditionally, but now.

…and on gatekeeping freedom, I take you’ve as much to say about China gatekeeping the Uyghurs’ freedom?

Obviously countless other examples, but you get the point.

Bringing up gay rights here is a red herring. I assume gay, straight, all Palestinians are equally being targetted in Gaza by Israel, are all equally suffering from lack of healthcare, bombing, starvation as we speak.

This argumemt isnt used to support LGBTQ+ Palestinians, it’s used to deflect from the urgent issue of military occupation and collective punishment. You don’t need to approve of every aspect of a society to believe people there deserve freedom and dignity. That’s the whole point, that basic rights should never be conditional.

Palestinians define freedom for themselves. But none of them are choosing checkpoints, airstrikes, siege, or statelessness. That’s not a “western saviour” position, it’s a basic moral one.

Apparently not for some on this thread though.

You do totally sidestep the problem of Hamas. Who do you think Hamas are? You certainly don't seem to think that they are Palestinians. I am certainly not saying that innocents deserve to die, not in the slightest.

But how do any of your 'wouldn't it be great if everyone just got along' solutions deal with the problem of Hamas?

I posted because others were saying. Switch the word Zionist with Jew and then accusing another of anti semitism. RTT and why I posted makes perfect sense.

Israel isn't preventing then from seeing anything. There is no information blackout. Gaza is saturated with local "journalists", UN agencies, aid organisations, and civilians with smartphones. Videos, photos, and updates pour out on a daily basis- more than from any conflict in history.

UN bodies like UNRWA and WHO, as well as NGOs like MSF and the Red Crescent, have staff on the ground documenting conditions. This war is being livestreamed in real-time by Gazans themselves, with an unprecedented volume of footage, much of it raw and unfiltered.

And also some of it, total bullshit. Such is how it works when you're fighting a war of propaganda. The onus is on the media to seperate fact from fiction, which they've proved time and time again they've no intention of doing.

What the media and that plethora of sources isn't doing or sharing is the videos of Gazans speaking out against Hamas, of them saying Hamas is opressing them, videos of them begging to be evacuated. Videos of Hamas torturing innocent people for getting food.

Why do you think that is? Hmm.

Nobody is saying civilians should be bomded.

Lots of people are saying they are tragic causalities of war.

A war Hamas started knowing what the reaction would be, knowing how small Gaza was, knowing that half the population was children who would undoubtedly suffer the most harm (they’ve have been using children as shields for years so they should know how many children there are).

Ive already covered the starvation point.

What does this freedom look like to you? Ceasefire happens tomorrow, Israel says “We’re done. Whatever you want”. What does the day after look like?

Egypt could have opened that border for women and children, couldn’t they? Set up camps in the Sinai to house them temporarily until the war was over. Why didn’t they?

I’ve explained my position clearly. If you keep ignoring that to demand justifications or twist the focus, that says more about your need to control the narrative than any gap in what I’ve said. I’m not here to defend the obvious, which is that Palestinians are not Hamas, and they are entitled to freedom. That’s not up for debate.

This plethora of information that keeps being debunked you mean. Let the journalists in for full and undeniable reporting.

Well said !

That was me saying that. I was saying that if you have a look at a lot of the charges being levelled at Zionists on posters at marches, and switched them for the word Jew, people would possibly realise that actually these posters were saturated in antisemitic tropes.

I know what Zionism is. Many people don't. They seem to think it means 'supports Netanyahu', and thus feel completely free to demonise them. Zionist has long been used as a code word for Jew by antisemites and now it is also being used to propagate anti-Jewish tropes by people who would claim that they are not antisemitic.

Because they had no surety they’d ever be allowed back to their homeland. Especially if Netanyahu gets his way.

Who are Hamas then?

It is called ethnic cleansing when an entire population is pushed to abandon its homes. Palestinians should not have to cross into Sinai or anywhere else because Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem are their homeland; the Fourth Geneva Convention makes the occupying power responsible for their safety where they live, not for shipping them out.

“Freedom” the day after a cease-fire is not abstract. It means an end to siege and military rule, freedom of movement through their own seaport and airport, courts that apply one body of civil law to everyone, and elections that are not vetoed by an outside army. It means rebuilding homes, hospitals and schools instead of watching them levelled a second time.

I assume that Egypt keeps Rafah tight because it refuses to be the back-door partner to mass transfer - international law calls that forcible deportation. The solution is not to move Palestinians out, it is to stop bombing them in.

Exactly, this. More land grabbing. Notice the people pre selling off sections of Gazan seafront to Americans.