Anti-semitism in the UK

[Lolapusht]

Published yesterday I believe.

Evidence of anti-Semitism in the UK

Not sure if that link will work so…

https://x.com/nicolelampert/status/1944147294917439912?s=61&t=_cKTNp_TyAyzDViEOCJDFQ

Even worse is that it gets minimised.

Take a look around the ME. Look at all those Arab states with large, thriving Jewish populations like Iraq... nope, they've all gone. Well, um, Egypt? Nope, forced out there, too. How about Syria? Er, same story.

Approximately half of Israelis are Mizrachi Jews. Bearing in mind their family histories, how keen do you expect them to be on the idea of a bi-national state? Particularly when the other nation has form for actively teaching its children, in school, to be antisemites? When one of their big political groupings is Hamas?

'This is not about denying Jews a homeland.' We've already had at least one person on this thread who wouldn't answer the question about whether she thought there should be a Jewish state or not.

If you think a bi-national state is a feasible aim any time in the near to mid future, then you're living in cloud cuckoo land.

Yes, great post @Voxon Incredible that it had to be done. My god, this thread.

It was a grave injustice that Jews were expelled from many Arab states in the 20th century. But Palestinians are not responsible for that. Using that history to justify the ongoing denial of Palestinian rights just perpetuates more injustice.

Many Mizrahi Jews now live in Israel with full citizenship and state protection. Palestinians do not. They are stateless, under military occupation, and denied basic rights. That’s the core issue.

If shared citizenship in a democratic state is too much to imagine because of historic trauma, we should be honest about what we are defending. A system where one group is granted freedom, movement, land and sovereignty, while the other is held behind walls, under siege, and without a vote. You say a shared state is unrealistic. But how sustainable is a future built on permanent inequality?

You haven't answered my questions.

....................But how sustainable is a future built on permanent inequality?

Indeed

I can think of two issues that concern me

Firstly what effect will what is happening in Gaza at the moment have on the long term future of Israel? About 80% of those who fight for Hamas have lost a family member to the IDF or Settlers. Looking at the figures in a recent paper in the Lancet about the number of dead in Gaza the Government of Israel has recruited thousands to fight for Hamas or whatever organisation takes on its role.

Then there is the question of the unquestioning support of the Labour and Conservative parties for Israel, despite what is happening at the moment. It seems to me that our politicians instead of asking thoughtful probing questions about what is happening have instead been bought - literally by Zionists.

“That’s not because you’re Jewish - it’s because you’ve publicly come out supporting Israel,“
I’m shocked that you think public support of Israel means the following is ok

1. I have lost my main work contract as a freelancer.
2. My toddler and husband were heckled off a bus to yells of “JEW JEW JEW” and spat on.
3. I didn’t attend my PhD graduation because the Dean couldn’t assure my safety. As it happened, the ceremony broke out into a pro-Hamas melee.
4. I’m considering not putting a kippah on my son when he turns 3 next year.
5. I have been doxxed and cyberstalked, and someone contacted my publisher to advise them not to publish my book.
6. Almost every week I report offensive stickers and posters to the police and CST.
7. Heightened security at my synagogue and kids’ school.
8. Someone seeing the mezuzah on our door and ringing the bell to ask our views on Palestine.

Yes. They're basically suggesting half the worlds Jews are put under the rule of a group of people who are the nost antisemitic group of people on the planet, more so perhaps than the Nazis in that they've been indoctrinated since birth to hate them. Where they have been taught it is "Arab Land" and Jews are colonisers from Europe. People who live in a statelet where Jews are not allowed to go, or they will be murdered. Where the state, and many civilians participate and celebrate in murdering them. Where they need an iron dome to defend them against rockets fired at them every day. Where civilians who murder a Jew gets paid for it and becomes a hero.

Not a single person who suggests this would even remotely consider it if it were their life on the line, but it's incredibly easy to say stupid things when it will never affect you.

Add to that, even if Palestinians were not a vocal threat to innocent Jewish life, they do not have the same way of life.

Self-determination means a group of people has the right to decide for themselves how they want to be governed, and to form their own state or political status.

Israel is a largely liberal democracy with a western style approach to human rights. People can be gay. They can wear what they like. They can get drunk. Journalists can say whatever they want. People can protest the government. It's a free society.

There is no indication at all that Palestinians, a generally deeply conservative Islamic society want to live like this.

What would happen is what always happens. The majority forces the minority to live how it's dictated to live, and that would result in the human rights of millions of israelis, including the Muslims, changing very significantly.

I did answer your question. I support a future where Jews and Palestinians live with equal rights, safety and dignity. That does not require denying anyone’s existence, but it does mean rethinking a system built on domination and exclusion.

So let me ask you directly in return. Do you believe the current status quo is just? Do you believe it is fair for millions of Palestinians to live without citizenship, freedom of movement, or the right to vote in the state that controls their lives? Is permanent occupation, blockade and settlement expansion something you think should continue indefinitely?

Because if not, then what are you actually supporting? And if yes, then that’s not about fear or history, thats a defence of apartheid.

No, shared citizenship in a democratic state with basic rights is too much to imagine because Palestinians have been 100% free to choose that for decades, and they have not.

Nobody stops them having human rights but other Palestinians.

It's not like they said "oh yes so we'd like democracy and freedom of assembly and the right of free speech and fair trials and freedom to be gay" and the israel refused.

They built their way of life based on the principles of their choosing. It doesn't include basic rights or democracy.

You paint Israel as a liberal democracy while ignoring that millions of Palestinians live under Israeli control with no citizenship, no vote, no freedom of movement, and daily military rule. Thats not democracy, its occupation.

Palestinians are not asking to force anyone to live under religious law. They are asking not to be bombed, starved, displaced and locked behind walls. Equal rights are not a threat unless the system being defended depends on inequality.

Claiming Palestinians are “the most antisemitic people on the planet” is both dehumanising and false. It erases the actual history of Jewish-Muslim coexistence before 1948 and ignores the very real anger caused by decades of occupation and dispossession, not blind hate from birth. Does antisemitism exist in Palestinian society? Yes. Just as anti-Arab racism exists in Israeli society. Neither justifies apartheid or collective punishment.

You say no one would choose this if their own life was on the line. But millions of Palestinians never had that choice. They were born under blockade, under military checkpoints, or in exile. It is easy to call for permanent division when one side holds the power. But if democracy, equality, and freedom mean anything, they cannot only apply to one group.

All those people claiming they don't see any antisemitism on marches or MN or whatever would do well to look at any signs/messages that contain the word 'Zionist', replace it with 'Jew' and then look at whether the same thing has been said about Jews for hundreds of years.

The Lancet figures have been discredited.

Was Britain expected to curate what opinion the Germans had of it during WWII? Were Isis/Muslim Brotherhood expected to worry about radicalising the Yazidis as they carried out their genocide? Why the double standard?

Your second paragraph is a perfect example of what you asked me earlier. What you’ve done there is excused your anti-Semitism by saying ‘Zionist’s’ instead of Jews, but we know what you meant. In case you are unaware, the “Zionists” controlling the media/politics is an anti-Semitic trope. The big octopus sitting on top of a globe with its big nose, tentacles going everywhere, controlling those in power through a secret cabal while hoarding all the gold. That’s what “our politicians have…been bought - literally by Zionists” means.

Quack, quack, quack.

The idea that Palestinians have rejected democracy ignores the conditions they live under. You cant freely choose your political future when you're under military occupation or blockade. In the West Bank, Israel operates a system of dual legal codes where Israeli settlers are governed by civil law, Palestinians by military law. Children as young as 12 are tried in military courts. Homes are demolished without trial. People are detained without charge.

In Gaza, Israel controls the airspace, sea access, population registry, and what food and medicine can enter. This is not sovereignty, its managed containment. In East Jerusalem, Palestinians face home demolitions and evictions to make way for Jewish settlers, often backed by the police or courts.

Even inside Israel proper, Palestinian citizens are treated unequally. Over 90 towns legally bar non-Jews from living in them under “admissions committees.” There are over 65 Israeli laws that discriminate directly or indirectly against Palestinian citizens, from land allocation to political speech.

This is not about rejecting rights. It’s about being denied them. And when people resist this system, whether through protest, international appeals, or civil society, they are labelled threats or terrorists. The problem isn’t that Palestinians have rejected democracy. It’s that they have been systematically denied the chance to live under it.

This from the Anne Frank House. that states there are many differences between Jews , Israelis and Zionists. They are not the same and as such the terms cannot simply be ‘switched’ about.

You paint Israel as a liberal democracy while ignoring that millions of Palestinians live under Israeli control with no citizenship, no vote, no freedom of movement, and daily military rule. Thats not democracy, its occupation.
Yes, because they are not in the liberal democracy of Israel, they are in the statelets next door which rejected liberal democracy.

Palestinians are not asking to force anyone to live under religious law. They are asking not to be bombed, starved, displaced and locked behind walls.
I can't speak for individual Palestinians, but Hamas who started this war with widespread support were not asking for any of that. They were asking to kill as many Jews as they could and just keep doing that indefinitely.

Equal rights are not a threat unless the system being defended depends on inequality.
Great, as I said, when the Palestinians have demonstrated they don't want to kill Jews and recognise they deserve equal rights you will have a fantastic point to make.

Claiming Palestinians are “the most antisemitic people on the planet” is both dehumanising and false.
They quite literally pay people to kill Jews. Mein Kampf is a best seller there. Wikipedia recap of ADL findings reports a 97% figure for Palestinians with antisemitic views .

It erases the actual history of Jewish-Muslim coexistence before 1948 and ignores the very real anger caused by decades of occupation and dispossession, not blind hate from birth.
Jews were occupied by Muslims and others for hundreds of years before Israel was created, theyve endured extreme persecution by Arabs, and they are the most dispossed group on eearth. They manage to not pay salaries to their civilians for killing Arabs, and they live with two million of them.

Does antisemitism exist in Palestinian society? Yes. Just as anti-Arab racism exists in Israeli society. Neither justifies apartheid or collective punishment.
Racism is one thing, risk of someone murdering you or is another. Jews are not taught to kill Muslims and they have proven that when sharing a country with 2 million Arabs that they do not harm them. Many people are racist in the UK, very few go out and stab people.

You say no one would choose this if their own life was on the line. But millions of Palestinians never had that choice. They were born under blockade, under military checkpoints, or in exile.
Agree. They should have accepted citizenship 80 years ago. They should have been given citizenship when they were under Arab occupation. They should have accepted the fair deals they've been offered and understand - the same as tens of millions of other people- that sometimes you have to move on. Moreover, instead of committing oct 7 they should have been building a country, showing they wanted to live instead of kill. If they choose that they are happy to martyr every Palestinian just to annihilate israel then that's a choice.

It is easy to call for permanent division when one side holds the power. But if democracy, equality, and freedom mean anything, they cannot only apply to one group.
Democracy, equality and freedom are not magic beans that drop from the sky. They are something a collective national group chooses and often has to fight for. Israel can't give them it. They have to choose it themselves. When they are no longer and open, obvious and highly vocal threat to Israeli life - I am sure things can change but until then if someone says they are going to kill you and shows you how serious they are, you really dont have much choice but to stop them.

I really do think you've projected your ideals on the situation. Hamas are not fighting a just cause. Hamas are fighting to annihilate Jews, and that is what started this war and really every other.

Mein Kampf bestseller in Gaza?? Proof please.

Proof:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1388161/Mein-Kampf-for-sale-in-Arabic.html?

Are you that naive?

Even Jeremy Corbyn admitted that antisemites use the word Zionist when they really want to say Jew.

"Zionists control your government". Do you think it is a coincidence that that is an accusation that has been levelled against Jews for a long, long time? Hitler used it.

Are there still 3 administrative areas in the West Bank?

You say Jews are not taught to kill Palestinians but, rather ironically, right now we are watching thousands of Palestinians, including children, being killed, starved, and bombed by a state with one of the most powerful militaries in the world. Aid convoys are attacked, hospitals are flattened, entire families are wiped out in minutes. That is not restraint or moral clarity. That is calculated violence.

Framing Palestinian freedom as something they must earn by first proving they are no threat is the logic of every oppressive regime in history. Equality is not something handed out once the oppressed have behaved themselves. It is a right, not a reward. If the only way to maintain your safety is to keep another people stateless, voiceless and trapped under military rule, then what you are defending isnt democracy. Its apartheid dressed up as self-preservation.

I’m aware it was translated. You said it was a best seller in Gaza. So I’m asking what intel they have on this as a best seller in Gaza