Why do you get all the knobs at Glastonbury? (Part 2)

[HellsBalls]

Bob Vylan crying in their cornflakes after having their US visas revoked.
This is pretty serious as one ESTA question is ‘Have you ever been denied a U.S. visa you applied for with your current or previous passport, or have you ever been refused admission to the United States or withdrawn your application for admission at a U.S. port of entry?’

So no US work or holidays in the future for them.

Also three festivals have dropped them, so far.

Freedom of speech yes, freedom from the consequences, no.

Gammon is a racist perjorative, either all are equal or none are and gammon is right up there with Karen in villifying someone for their skin colour or sex.

I also wince when I see lobster red skin in the sun but foolishness is colourblind.

so just to be clear, you’re anti free speech? People shouldn’t be allowed to make political statements?

😂

ok then.

and how are we enforcing this in lyrics? Is it only the Middle East you’re banning? Or are we going after anti-misogyny songs?

If BV crossed a line into a criminal act with their chant, that’s something that should be investigated and dealt with appropriately, but banning flags (as annoying as they are for people trying to see) is a ridiculous idea.

How would anyone find their mates were it not for ‘I’m between stack 6 and the papier maché Milhouse’?

🤣

I disagree that it’s racist (or that Karen is). It’s a helpful shorthand for the kind of insular, undereducated group think that causes so much trouble around issues of race, immigration and religion.

meant to quote @quantumbutterfly

Get your photo on a flag if you want to find your mates, otherwise you could end up in someone else's tent who has the same flag.

Agree. Can’t believe someone’s actually suggesting that the murder of 1,200 people (mostly civilians) in a single day and taking hostage of another 250 should have been a cue for Israel to sit down with the very same people who committed those atrocities and try to find a “diplomatic solution” and a “compromise”.
What other nation would be expected to do that?

Is it based on skin colour?

Have you also used the word coconut to describe someone?

I don’t take a flag 😂 people who do are ridiculous. But they’re helpful for finding people in the crowd. I use what3words for my tent, obviously.

Karen is more sexist than racist, it's just another way to silence women's voices.

I'm not pro either. I am against the atrocities of both Hamas and thr IDF.

Its the people I feel for.

It’s based on description, so partially skin colour. More the flaccid, waxy red that an irate, fat racist goes between lines of coke and throwing flares at riot police.

I have heard the term coconut but never used it personally.

Any other questions? Think you’re derailing the thread a little so shall we get them all out in one? I think you’re building up to a gotcha suggesting I’m racist against white people so shall we cut to the chase? Or do you want to defend the likes of Waxy-Lemon a bit more first?

What did the “gammons” do at Glastonbury to earn your mockery?

Beyond drinking alcohol & leaving mess behind which would equally apply to most of the other people there.

No it isn’t. It’s a term used for a certain type of person who is a stickler for the rules. I’ve heard it used for both men and women. It’s just slang. I’ve been called a Karen by someone I asked to turn their engine off outside school. I didn’t feel aggrieved, I laughed.

You're up on the high ground with Gordon Brown and Emily Thornberry.

can you give an example of any powerful country that has turned the other cheek after more than a thousand of their innocent civilians have been massacred?

This is a fair point and I was with Israel for a short time following October 7th. It soon became clear though (imo) that their reaction was disproportionate and their stated aims disingenuous.

Also you could just as easily ask “Can you give an example of an occupying force who were not met with violent opposition?”

The point I would like to make is that these 2 sides are trapped in a cycle of violence. So unfortunately we cannot expect peaceful behaviour from those people on either side who are up to their necks and suffering. I found “once upon a time in N. Ireland” on the iplayer a useful watch on this subject.

It it the responsibility of those who are able to keep their heads to urge a stop to the violence. To counter genocidal actions, to uphold international law, to be even handed, to create the conditions where baby steps towards peace can happen, to point out that killing a child on the other side does not bring your children back, to uncover difficult truths etc, etc. there are examples where this has been successful (Ireland and S.Africa being 2). It’s a long and faultering process but there you go.

Our politicians have utterly failed in this respect, and instead they have taken one side over the other. it’s no surprise that many citizens here are increasingly exasperated.

Saying tasteless things is kind-of part of the job description for punks and being on the receiving end of violence is part of the job description of the military. So I don’t think the chants at Glastonbury are of much consequence especially given the IDF are shooting into hungry crowds at the moment.

Come on … no one uses the word Karen to describe a man.

You did just use the alternative insult normally aimed at middle aged white men - Gammon.

Or are you going to now claim the derogatory term gammon can be used to describe men of any colour?

One of them held a sign saying the ‘Bonnie blue queue starts here’. Several pushed through orderly queues and crowds because they’re too special to take turns. Generally being aggressive. Leaving lots of litter around. Pissing on the land. Leaving piles of rubbish when they left the site on Sunday and Monday. Usual selfish gammon shit.

Look at the mess left by EDF marches compared to Antifa, you’ll get the picture.

Where were you camped? Surprised you didn’t notice much more selfish behaviour than usual this year (although I haven’t been for a few years, so maybe it was more apparent to me than someone who’s been going regularly).

It’s not that “gammons” that are displaying racist stereotypes in that post.

Just had to comment on this as I've been to Glastonbury for years and to be honest I rarely see any "gammons" at all at Glastonbury - I've seen all different people do this over the years and a lot are young who are just f*cked on drugs or very drunk and don't know what they are doing. It's everywhere, even in the green fields. It would be a whole lot better for the environment if the festival didn't happen. The piles of food rubbish around the main stages are disgusting.

Because you never see arsehole behaviour and mess at carnival.

Lots of entitled behaviour around that I can see, thank goodness you're not one of them.

Reading festival always used to be a bit rough, Womad was a bit nicer. Crowds always leave shit behind but it's only in the last few years that I've seen fields of abandoned, non-biodegradable tents. No wonder people complain they have no money - well that and £300 for a festival ticket.

I have heard men called Karens. Maybe my group is progressive?! I assumed everyone called anyone who’s a stickler for the rules, Karen, men or women.

Gammon is totally different. It’s not about enforcing rules, it’s not the male equivalent of Karen. Karen can have a racist component but doesn’t have to. Gammon almost always does refer to someone racist - or at least xenophobic. Someone aggressive, overly laddie. I’m applying gammon to racists, you seem to be suggesting the term is itself racist because it applies to white men only.

I mean, if you believe any descriptor that can only be applied to one race is racist, then sure, gammon would, in your definition, be racist. But that’s not what I know racism to be.

Anymore than the terms brown skin or dreadlocks are racist.

Weird segue on such a serious topic.

It’s the first year I’ve seen it and was really shocked - but I’ve had a break for a few years so wondered if it had been a gradual build.

There are no bins in the main fields (for obvious reasons) so people do tend to drop more rubbish there as it’s almost impossible to go out to a bin and find your way back. Not ideal but factored into the daily clean up planning. I don’t usually see much rubbish elsewhere - people use the bins and separate appropriately. I rarely (before this time) even saw people dropping fag ends on the floor.

Before we ban Glasto for the environment let’s look at F1, the space programme and world book day.

Which serious topic? Racism or this war, because some people are suggesting they're related. (Btw I'm not one who sees Israelis = white colonialists, but I do see that narrative being used to force team)

I lived on the carnival route for more than a decade, and there was a lot of antisocial behaviour, but if you’re trying to suggest it was wholly or even mostly from the Afro-Caribbean community, I think I know why you’re so keen to defend the gammon…

When you say Hamas triggered destruction to Gaza, it seems you assume destruction is an inevitable consequence, unavoidable. So my understanding of what you said is that an appropriate response to a terrorist attack includes killing tens of thousands of civilians who live in the same region as the terrorist group, destroying infrastructure, housing, water treatment plants and cutting of food supplies directly and indirectly and damaging 90% of the residential buildings in the country.

This is making civilians pay with their lives and their children's lives for the crimes of their leaders or terrorists who represent them. It's exactly the same logic Osama Bin Laden used to justify why all American and British citizens were legitimate targets due to the actions of the leaders they elected in George Bush and Tony Blair.

I do not dispute that Hamas are terrorists. But a nation decides to fight terrorists with the same in return but on an industrialised scale that results in orders of magnitude higher deaths doesn't get to claim its actions are right. Unless you believe the life of a Palestinian civilian is of less value than the life of an Israeli.