Heartbreaking news report from Gaza - Dr receives bodies of her children

[Applenation]

Many of you will already have read about this. Paediatric specialist Dr Alaa al-Najjar was on duty when the bodies of nine of her 10 children were received by her in the hospital, after a strike in Khan Younis hit her home.

This report just stopped me in my tracks. I don't know what to say beyond this. I cannot stop thinking about this poor woman tonight.

er children killed by a strike in Khan Younis. Guardian link

@AIBUHere
Factually nothing he said was verifiable evidence that children had been deliberately targeted by the IDF in his testimony.

It really sounds like you're putting the bar for evidence at an impossible height. Imagine if someone said this about the rapes on October 7th. I assume you don't deny victim testimony there?

So let's apply that thinking here.

Mamode's words: "Well, the drones would come down and pick off civilians, children. And we had description after description. This is not, you know, an occasional thing. This was day after day after day."

"The bullets that the drones fire are these small, cuboid pellets. I fished a number of those out of the abdomen of small children. I think the youngest I operated on was a 3 year old."

"This was day after day after day, operating on children who would say, I was lying on the ground after a bomb had dropped, and this quadcopter came down and hovered over me and shot me. And that's clearly a deliberate act, and it was a persistent act, persistent targeting of civilians."

Are you, in good conscience, denying this? You're actually reading this and thinking of plausible alternative explanations? Or you just think he's lying?

Interesting on the day certain posters start on with this nonsense that the dead children were all child soldiers that I looked at some of the main UK newspapers on social media and the same lines about child soldiers are suddenly appearing today. Almost like there is a hasbara app giving people talking points on how to defend the IDF. Your arguments are insulting to the brutally murdered children. Let us stop diverting the conversation that- this conflict has seen more children death that any recent conflict. Children playing, watering plants, waiting for food, sleeping in their beds - murdered!

I did not say the dead children were all child soldiers.

Why do you feel the need to resort to falsehoods?

I am not on any Hasbara apps. Where are they, I’ll give them a look and make up my own mind but I have no interest in defending the IDF, I am I only interested in the truth and this war has only caught my attention because of the blatant propaganda surrounding it, and lack of accountability for the people who started it and continue to perpetrate it, while their own people continue to suffer.

Do you know what Hasbara actually means?

I just came across this video and from my own research it sums up this conflict very succinctly. I believe the lady is Iranian. It is horrific that this has been allowed to go on so long. Generations of Palestinian children could have lived in peace - it is truly one of the worst crimes against a people (the Palestinians) since the Holocaust although that is the only similarity IMO.

Crazy that people who can do a bit of simple research, have the ability to look at such a serious issue from a neutral perspective based on facts and don’t get sucked in by illogical propaganda are called ‘bots’ and accused of getting talking points from apps but there you go.

https://x.com/LizaRosen0000/status/1928432772516909135

Yet you couldn't find any relating to children being shot.

And why shouldn't Gazans go to Israel? Obviously it's near, easy to get to. As Israel doesn't target civilians and knows who Hamas is, seems like it's ideally placed to provide refuge to innocent Gazans: it know who they are already. And it would remove the human shields argument. And it would help with Israel's new sid agency.
Perhaps Israel could help the Gazans move to the new settlements they've created after removing Palestinians who were there? After all there must be plenty of space. You know, the ones that were announced yesterday. By the prime minister.

You're right though, what you said was:

"The despicable use of child soldiers by Hamas means that they will also be included in the massively inflated casualty figures which are totally unverified by any unbiased source btw".

But Israel know who the child soldiers are because that's why they are shot.

Absolutely I was listening to the Israeli Ambassador with Piers Morgan and it was like a Mumsnet post come to life.

No one said the dead children were all child soldiers.

That’s obvious to anyone reading this thread and you weaken your argument by having to make up lies.

No I think the poster making these kind of dehumanising offensive claims is weakening the argument
It is heartbreaking but that’s probably because Ukrainians don’t use children as pawns for their cause, for human shields and as child soldiers after they have been indoctrinated in terrorist training camps.

Interesting you glossed over these dehumanising offensive statements but felt the need to correct a poster on their misinterpretation of other dehumanising offensive statements. Seriously give your head a wobble.

They weren’t misinterpreting they were making something up and pretending another poster said something they didn’t say.

You give your head a wobble if you think coming at me in any way deflects from the fact @RandomWordsThrownTogether was not being honest about what another poster said.

They weren’t misinterpreting they were making something up
They weren't we can all read, it has been claimed on this thread that children are trained as soldiers, are sent out to their deaths by their parents as pawns and are indoctrinated in terrorist training camps but yeah @RandomWordsThrownTogether is making things up

There has been disgusting offensive stuff posted on this thread about dead children and their grieving parents. A thread that was started to highlight the death of 9 siblings. Shameful

For the hard of understanding: no one said that the dead children were ALL child soldiers.

It is heartbreaking but that’s probably because Ukrainians don’t use children as pawns for their cause, for human shields and as child soldiers after they have been indoctrinated in terrorist training camps.

They didn't clarify did they? They said "children" what children? whose children? how many children? what aged children? How many of the dead children? none of that is explained or evidence provided

So in your opinion how many children are they talking about?

They aren’t talking about all the children who have died, that is obvious to everyone.

I’ve made my point about @RandomWordsThrownTogether making stuff up. No idea why you’re getting involved in a comment not addressed to you but I’m done talking about it with you.

It's a public thread I can respond if I want dm them if you want a private discussion. Anyway you were interjecting on someone else's comment too.
I felt your comment was petty when there has been very offensive claims made about dead children.

The rhetoric used was that children have died because Hamas use child soldiers. This rhetoric was used to explain why there are 20x more child deaths in Gaza as opposed to the Ukraine which heavily implies that thousands of children are dead because they are terrorists. So I ask you to clarify - is it just 90% of the kids that are terrorists, 80% of the kids? How many of the little toddlers that were shot in the head by snipers and quadcopters were terrorists exactly. Amazing how kids too young to walk are already terrorists.

I have shared links from the mainstream media which verify that children are systematically being murdered, Israel is currently being investigated for war crimes - genocide to be precise. A large number of international aid agencies have reported about children being murdered too but the people denying it on the thread are truthful and I am a liar? What do you think about the international Doctors testimonials? Several Israeli government officials have said the aim is to clear Gaza of Palestinians - this is all on public record.

These particular children were the nieces and nephews of Irish Palestinian doctor, Dr Ali Al Najjar, Sligo University Hospital for years, a man of peace and integrity .
The names of the children who died in the air strike were Yahya, Rakan, Eve, Jubran, Ruslan, Revan, Sayden, Luqman and Sidra. Sidra’s twin Sidar died aged three months due to an infection and lack of medication thanks to the blockade. They were definitely not soldiers- the oldest was 12.
Their mum, Alaa, a paediatrician was working 2-3 shifts a week, expressing breast milk for the youngest during her work breaks. They had papers that could have helped them evacuate to Egypt, family in Ireland and Saudi, but the war had impacted so badly on Gaza, they opted to stay , in the basis that that someone had to provide medical care to those who couldn’t leave. Being out of school the older kids were able to help out with the younger ones , getting them washed and dressed and the 12 year old would give the baby a bottle. They were a little tribe, with their own little friend groups and alliances within the siblings just as I see with my own little tribe . Real people with real lives and hopes and dreams. The house was a “ house of joy, a house full of life” This house had 4 stories and the dad, Hamdi, who was also a doctor had a surgery downstairs and a pharmacy , a basic lab on another floor. They thought the basement was the safest part of the house but that where the 9 kids were made burn to death, mum at work looking after sick children and dad upstairs. Imagine being at work when your child dies in agony without being able to hold their little hand, the screams, of pain and fear!s I see with my own little tribe . Real people with real lives and hopes and dreams. The house was a “ house of joy, a house full of life” This house had 4 stories and the dad, Hamdi, who was also a doctor had a surgery downstairs and a pharmacy , a basic lab on another floor. They thought the basement was the safest part of the house but that where the 9 kids were made burn to death, mum at work looking after sick children and dad upstairs. Imagine being at work when your child dies in agony without being able to hold their little hand, the screams, of pain and fear!
The surviving child, Adam has multiple open fractures and needs nerve grafts as well as his head injury.The father has a lost part of a hand and part of a lung as well as a fractured skull and is still in danger. The bodies of the children were virtually unrecognisable and two bodies are still under the rubble.

It is really awful to be reading that some posters are worried that this will make Israel will look bad and others implying that they deserved to die because …… well I’m not sure why child soldiers are would be mentioned in a thread with this title except with the intention of creating the impression that these very young children were soldiers or terrorists.
Even if you pranged your neighbours car by accident you would apologise pay to have it fixed, instead we are hearing “not our fault, they made us do it

@Kindatired no one has implied the babies deserved to die.

No one was trying to create the impression that the doctor’s young children were soldiers or terrorists.

Anyone else want to make accusations about things no one said?

1. Hamas control the casualty numbers and Hamas lies. There is no verification regarding the number of people dying and whether they are men, women or children.
2. References to the Hasbara apps and the treating of what people have been saying in bad faith, as if they are part of a conspiracy rather than actually believe in what they say, is bordering into antisemitic thinking. An updated version of the Jewish worldwide conspiracy with Jews working against their host societies and doing evil things to their women and children.
3. @RandomWordsThrownTogether keeps claiming that the deaths are systematic but there is no evidence of this. So stop making stuff up.
4. Hamas knowingly started this war knowing that people would die in Gaza and knowing that people in the West would be unable to resist the itch of antisemitic thinking if it went on for long enough, and here we are.
5. It can be true that ONE Israel (as well as Hamas) is committing war crimes - if it is - and TWO people here and more generally are lapsing into antisemitic world thinking in the amount of attention they give it when they don't care about Palestinians dying in Syria for example, how they understand it and what they are wanting to believe and how they assume that people supportive of Israel, if not necessarily the war, are acting in a duplicitous manner with nefarious intent.

@ Twiglets What is the title of this thread?
Why is there any mention of child soldiers at all?
This doctor is a mum like us. Caring for sick children at work. Committed to serving the poor and sick. Her home was targeted by the IDF. Her children burned alive. Her surviving son and husband left with life changing injuries.
Her brother comes on an Irish national radio station and says he does not want revenge on the Jewish people and calls for a peaceful negotiated solution and peaceful coexistence . Two of the kids are still not buried. It is like listening to Mahatma Gandhi or Nelson Mandela. The country virtually grinds to a halt as people pause their daily chores and lets the tears flow for these lovely children
@Biscuitsformeandyou They made us do it is not a defence for war crimes. There’s been no apology from Israel to this family. What evidence can you provide that there has not been targetting of the children of the ethnic group? All evidence seen so far points in the opposite direction.These children were high potential young people and future potential leaders of their nation and they now have been wiped out in this most barbaric attack

@Biscuitsformeandyou

I actually agree with some of what you're saying, but I'm still waiting for any pro-Israeli poster to acknowledge that actually the testimony from medical professionals on the ground - not Palestinians, not Hamas - is that children are being cruelly targeted.

I've repeatedly quoted Nizam Mamode and will do so again here:* *
"This was day after day after day, operating on children who would say, I was lying on the ground after a bomb had dropped, and this quadcopter came down and hovered over me and shot me. And that's clearly a deliberate act, and it was a persistent act, persistent targeting of civilians."

There's no ifs or buts about whether this is a war crime. It's not one or two accidents, it's a pattern. Maybe you would like to respond to that, since @AIBUHere ignored my previous post.

I can obviously confirm that children are being killed but the accusations of targeting are so egregious that it requires a very high bar of proof which hasn't been demonstrated

Yes, it is absolutely egregious.

Like this open letter from US medics:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/26/world/open-letter-45-us-physicians-gaza

“Specifically, every one of us on a daily basis treated pre-teen children who were shot in the head and chest,” they wrote.
“We wish you could see the nightmares that plague so many of us since we have returned: dreams of children maimed and mutilated by our weapons, and their inconsolable mothers begging us to save them. We wish you could hear the cries and screams our consciences will not let us forget.”

@Biscuitsformeandyou
The problem is that there is no-one independent enough witness for you to accept that this has happened. Unfortunately- we do not have independent journalists, so we have to look at what evidence we do have.

Prof Nick Maynard is a highly respected cancer surgeon in Oxford. I would trust what he says

m.youtube.com/watch?v=-b0EA_XCfvI

And from the same article:

Dr. Mark Perlmutter, a Jewish American orthopedic hand surgeon from North Carolina and president of the World Surgical Association, told CNN that he decided to go to Gaza after receiving photographs of an X-ray of a poorly performed surgery in the battered enclave.
The photos were sent to him by a first-year medical resident who had been forced to perform the surgery and requested Perlmutter’s expertise. When Perlmutter asked why senior surgeons hadn’t done the operation, the resident explained that they had been killed in a bombing.
Perlmutter told CNN that during his trip, he saw significant violence inflicted on children, who accounted for around 90% of those attending the emergency room while he was working at the European Gaza Hospital.
Describing a hospital overrun, Perlmutter said after every bombing, he would find injured children laid across the floor, their loved ones panicking.
“Some are dead, some will die in front of you, and some you can save. You try to save the ones you can save,” Perlmutter said.

He recalled two patients aged around six years old, who had suffered gunshots to their heads and chests – wounds which suggested they had been deliberately targeted, he said.
“No kid gets shot twice by a sniper by mistake,” Perlmutter said, adding that the shots were “dead center” to their chests.

Yes the doctor is a mum like us. I feel very sorry for her and her husband and the poor son who has lost all his siblings.

That is one thing. But making things up is something else. It's unnecessary and it's wrong to put words into people's mouths that they didn't say during debates.

Let's keep the posts as factual as possible. There are bad enough things happening that no one has to exaggerate anything.