Gary Lineker - he really had to go and a warning t against virtue signalling

[mids2019]

Maybe Gary Lineker's departure acts as a warning for this not acquainted with history to go around randomly reposting pro Palestinian links though I suspect he is not the only one. In a way it is a sad demise to a career but an absolutely necessary one and a timely warning that a proportion of P Palestinian supporters are anti semites.

for to say I didn't like the Gaurdian 's take that the BBC were looking to sack Gary anyway and he just have them an excuse.

There will never be peace in Gaza while Hamas are in charge - surely you see that? There is no solution that doesn't include Hamas being destroyed or agreeing to leave the area (but to go where, I don't know. Who would want them apart from possibly Iran).

But equally, without Hamas, Israel will just totally wipe out Palestine.

It is literally their intention. No more Palestine. All the land stolen and possessed by Israel. Netanyahu has stated this.

So WHAT should Palestine do?

It didn’t seem to be Israel’s intention before the war as both sides were co-existing in an uneasy truce.

However, I do think the position of the Israel government has hardened since October 7th. So Hamas with their warmongering have totally fucked things for the citizens of Gaza.

Really? The ongoing land theft (I refuse to call it land grab, call it what it is) disproves that POV.

The settlers are stealing Palestinian land on a daily basis. That isn't peace. It's invasion and colonisation.

It didn’t seem to be Israel’s intention to wipe out Palestine before the war which was what was being discussed.

Stealing pockets of land is not the same thing.

Strange they would have an issue with having been kicked out of their own country by the British, and aren’t happy with the neighbours who have consistently tried to obliterate them.

How is it not? Killing Palestinians and stealing their land are all part of the same playbook.

Stealing their land until they have none left is part of wiping out Palestine.

I know. It’s the same story if you look at it from the other side. With Israel, Palestinians will always be oppressed and forced into a smaller and smaller land mass. Netanyahu has actively worked away from the two state solution (which international governments generally see as the solution @mids2019 is asking for)

Israel aren’t going to wipe out Hamas. The US warned this. It’s not just individuals, it’s an idea that is harnessing the anger Palestinians feel and turning into violence. That is why they can continuously replace the militants that are killed. Even if it folded tomorrow there seems to be numerous other armed militias happy to replace it,

If Israel was serious about wiping out Hamas it would be talking about what replaces Hamas. It’s not: it’s escalating the situation in the West Bank and it’s talking about curtailing Gazan’s in smaller areas. It’s hard to see a best case senario at the end of this for either country. Palestinians will be the ultimate victims.

But even if you look at it purely from an Israeli point of view. It will have committed all these war crimes, isolated itself globally and for what ? It will still face terrorism from all the people it has basically traumatised. If they are moved to another country this senario becomes even more serious for Isreal in the long term. Constant terrorism, constant retaliations, more global condemnation.

That’s why the German’s are saying now - what are you doing? There’s no sense in this.

Well that's one narrative, not especially true or helpful.

I do recommend 'the 50 years war' on BBC, it interviews people who were there at the time. It is several hours long so can be a problem if you have a short attention span but gives some useful perspective. It's quite balanced and thought provoking in light of many other events around the world today.

They weren't stealing their land until they had none left though were they, before the war?

There will never be peace in Gaza while Hamas are in charge - surely you see that? @Twiglets1

What worries me most is this blind fixation that some people have with eliminating Hamas. Whilst certainly desirable, it shouldn't be sought "at any cost. "

In fact, for me, the cost has already been too high.

The realpolitik is that for the greater good, Hamas may have to, in some form, be permitted to remain in power. That of course would be contingent on it disowning its armed wing. It offered to do this, along with recognise Israel's borders some time ago.
The PA also offered Israel its security on condition it returns to its 1967 borders.

Mr. Netanyahu was not interested..... perhaps because he has other things on his mind.

I doubt even Israel think they are actually going to destroy Hamas. If anything, they are strengthening them. If anything, they're pushing an awful lot more Palestinians into Hamas' arms by their conduct; it's hardly surprising that people will develop sympathies with them if they've had to watch their innocent relatives being killed arbitrarily by Israeli bombs and weapons.

That is your opinion that support for Hamas is being strengthened by the war, but I don't agree. I think the evidence is more that local people are starting to protest against their rule (at great personal risk) and the death & destruction their actions in attacking Israeli citizens and taking them hostage has unleashed.

BBC article: Palestinians have taken to the streets in southern Gaza for a third day to protest against Hamas.

Hundreds of demonstrators were seen in videos posted on social media calling for an end to the war and for the removal of the armed group from Gaza. "Out! Out! Out! All of Hamas, out!" they chanted.
Speaking out against Hamas can be dangerous in Gaza and threats circulated on journalists' WhatsApp groups on Tuesday, forbidding them from publishing any "negative news that could affect the morale of the people".
Activists said young people started the protests on Monday and were joined by others on their way to get food from community kitchens, who were still holding their pots.
The protesters directed their anger at Hamas's leadership after an interview with senior official Sami Abu Zuhri circulated on social media.
Speaking on a podcast which originally aired in late March, he said that the war with Israel was "eternal", adding: "We will rebuild the houses and produce dozens more babies for each martyr."
Videos from the protests in Khan Younis show young men criticizing Hamas for selling their "blood for a dollar… To those with Hamas, be aware the people of Gaza will dig your grave".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvmmr154v2o

There was no peace in Gaza before hamas were in charge. Hamas are Isreal’s creation. They are what happens after years of oppression while the rest of the world stands by.

Hmm ... it's funny how Hamas are everyone else's fault (literally "the rest of the world") rather their own supporters within Palestine and elsewhere.

It's that racism that many have that Palestinians, Muslims and Black males have no agency or will.

Always these same three groups to the exception of all others.

It’s funny that you can show your face as a supporter of Israel, seeing as they wait for starving people to come to get food, then shoot them instead.

They are behaving like monsters - their humanity has gone.

It’s actually not funny how you can show your face as a believer of everything that comes out of a designated terrorist group’s propaganda machine (even when they deliberately orchestrated the deaths and ‘starvation’ of their own people) when it blatantly lies.

<A supporter of Palestinian children having a normal childhood (not being groomed as martyrs) and growing up in peace and safety (and Israel)>

We have to admit obviously with the absence of journalism that everything Hamas say is the truth which is patently untrue. The photographs coming from Gaza is taken my mobile phones which require a charge and signal. The charge comes from generators presumably so those in possession of the phones probably have links to authority i.e. Hamas. It is naive to think Hamas is not waging a propaganda war and therefore the media have to tread carefully to retain integrity.

💯 in the future everyone will say they agreed with him. Genocide is not a good look !
He’s an extremely brave Individual who understands how zionism
works. He’s said in the past that he’s not afraid of them coming after him as he’s had his successes but it explains why so many people are afraid to speak out against genocide

They don’t. Get a grip.

Suggest you watch the testimonials from some
of the British doctors and surgeons who have been on the ground in Gaza . Dr Waseem saeed, dr Victoria rose and Dr nizam mamode to name a few. Their eye witness accounts all point to genocide.

Netanyahu needs Hamas and has propped them in the past as Hamas gave him the reason for genocide. Thousands of Palestinians were killed by Israel before Hamas even existed. What’s your excuse for that. Or for the 22 illegal settlements that were announced by Israel last week in the West Bank .
Interestingly In Hamas's new proposal, it reinserted language that Israel and Witkoff removed that says that Hamas would relinquish all governance and management of Gaza to an
independent technical committee of Palestinians. Israel and Witkoff paper didn't mention this at all.
It's about time someone noticed this. Hamas is asking to give up power. Netanyahu will not allow them to do so.
He needs them in power to continue the war, stay in power, and continue the genocide.