Gary Lineker - he really had to go and a warning t against virtue signalling

[mids2019]

Maybe Gary Lineker's departure acts as a warning for this not acquainted with history to go around randomly reposting pro Palestinian links though I suspect he is not the only one. In a way it is a sad demise to a career but an absolutely necessary one and a timely warning that a proportion of P Palestinian supporters are anti semites.

for to say I didn't like the Gaurdian 's take that the BBC were looking to sack Gary anyway and he just have them an excuse.

I don’t think I’d describe Israel as a western country. It’s a Middle Eastern country that appears to have lost any moral compass it might have had lead by a blood and land hungry zealot intent on cleansing Gaza. When they look up from the bloodbath where will they go next?

They are a Western-style democracy - located in the Middle East.

@TomeTome
The huge difference in global population between Jews (about 15 million) and Muslims (nearly 2 billion) matters when it comes to social media and public opinion. On platforms driven by volume and engagement, the larger group naturally has a louder voice. This can make it harder for Jewish perspectives to be heard or for misinformation to be challenged, especially when discussions turn heated or political. It’s not about silencing anyone—just recognising how numbers can shape the narrative, whether we realise it or not.

I think public opinion is rather more fuelled by the what we know is happening in Gaza than who you are praying to.

For a country that puts religion so central to its existence there seems to be very little attempt to follow any moral code at all.

You do know muslims are not one homogenous group don't you? Why are you turning things into a muslim versus jew scenario? what has this got to do with Gary Lineker?

Clearly, trying to offer a different perspective here is largely futile and I think it best I save my time & energy.
It’s clear that many responses are shaped by a strong existing narrative, and any alternative view is either dismissed or twisted to fit that narrative rather than considered.
Best to get some work done now.

Was it a different perspective? I think you were trying to suggest that people had sympathy for the Palestinians because they were Muslim and not because they are being slaughtered and maimed and starved in their thousands. I would suggest that isn’t the case because most of the rest of the world see the brutality of what Israel is doing and just wants that to stop.

Have you asked your friend? And don't you think this question has been answered in @Stripes56's post above?

Agree. I ask myself every time I come on here.

I think it’s hard to get over the slaughter of innocent human beings. Whether is was caused by Hamas on 7th Oct or the Israeli Gov since then. It’s all horrendous. Full Stop!

The way I see it, the Western world has not "allowed" a horrific situation to unfold in Gaza.

We are not responsible for all the world atrocities.

Hamas are the main one who must take responsibility in my opinion. Followed by Netanyahu and his government who are choosing to respond to the massacre inflicted upon their people in a way that has now gone beyond proportionate.

But now the same thing is being done to Jews. Do 2 wrongs make a right?
I have absolutely no skin in the game as I am not from either faith but with people saying that Jews should be vocal I just feel the argument should be balanced

Like I said people shouldn't do it but they do. Your post indicated that this doesn't happen to Muslims when it very much does. This conflict has unfortunately seen a huge uptick in both antisemitism and anti Muslim hate come with it.

No I don't think it did.
I think that blaming people for the actions of others is wrong And that's what my post said. Don't hold others up to an unfair standard

Your point has absolutely no intellectual honesty, especially as every country surrounding and bordering Israel has religion as both its cultural and political raison d'etre to the point of complete othering of anything but Islam.

Furthermore, ethnicity, not religion is the reason for Israel's existence in the modern era.

Religion and morality hardly go hand in hand.
Religion, especially Christianity and Islam is are more about judgement and adherence to a narciissistic higher power's "word" lest those religions' adherents go to hell.

And both are religions of conversion, conquest and worldwide colonialism.

But carry on, hunny.

After a certain age, when certain manifestations occur for one thing, but not the other at least five( non ambiguous by proper definition ) ......
One should not seek permission to call those who can only catch vibes about the one thing what most of them clearly are.
And not to do you down, but to give you advice: One has a hard row to hoe expecting most of these same types to admit to what they are.

It is possible to be "anti Zionist" and anti Israel without being Anti Semitic, they claim. And that is true in some cases.

What they do not say is that Anti Zionism and being anti Israel is a logical culmination of being anti Jew.
Especially when Islamic colonialism that is far and wide seems not to trouble them so much.
Having a country for Jews =BAD.
Turning or trying to turn non Muslim races, countries Muslim by force, slavery and " conversion" and even expulsion= crickets.......
And let's not talk about how the Arabs colonised the Roman named Palestine changing its name from Judea.

Regarding Colonization see this article is from 1899.

https://www.nytimes.com/1899/06/20/archives/conference-of-zionists-elect-delegates-at-their-meeting-in.html
Thankfully Librarians around the world have done a great job of preserving newspapers from centuries ago.

The plan was always to colonize Palestine no amount of historical revisionism will change that. Also be mindful if it's so easy to revise history in order to justify settler colonialism, nefarious parties will also do the same thing with other more recent events.

1899! That would be under the ottoman empire then? Colonialism eh?

Are you suggesting Israel is a secular state? Can you expand at all on the idea that ”ethnicity, not religion is the reason for Israel's existence in the modern era.”?

It must be difficult to exclude an overlay of antisemitism. Would you be able to speak to them about how you feel? If they are close friends.

Perhaps the other examples of complicity by Western governments are less well known?

There was withdrawal of peace keeping troops in Congo - but passive withdrawal is different from arming a country when the UN is concerned about potential genocide. There has been a UN/ EU arms embargo in the Congo.

UK armed Saudi Arabia and that was taken to the High Court. Perhaps it’s because we have greater expectations from some countries?

I do think we would be as critical if a democratic ally was acting in a similar way to Israel. There was uproar at the Iraq war too.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/11/slugs-iraq-war-london-protest-2003-legacy

Yes and it’s been very clear from the start the Palestinians, are in their minds, engaged in a holy war.

It’s not as if the hysterical cries of ‘Allahu Akbar’ captured non stop on video by participants of the atrocities of Oct 7th, and ‘innocent civilians’ in Gaza as the dead bodies of the victims were paraded through the streets, weren’t a tiny clue.

I think a lot fewer main stream celebs are wary now of virtue signalling for Palestinians and quite sensibly for their careers are avoiding this topic (except kneecap but heh). People look at how easily it is to slide into anti senitism even unwittingly and think I really don't want to engage in this topic and so sensibly it is not mentioned.

I work in a diverse environment and there is a self disciplined destruction on conversations about Gaza as there may be things said that can't be unsaid and there are strict policies about racism (rightly so).

So people don't speak out because they don't want to be accused of antisemitism.
They don't want to engage in this 'topic' of Genocide.by and apartheid state in case it hurts their careers?

Show me an interview with a celeb where the conflict is openly discussed? If course it's common sense to avoid this topic of not a politician or someone with some broad based knowledge in the public arena.

I love your use of the word 'topic'.