Gary Lineker - he really had to go and a warning t against virtue signalling

[mids2019]

Maybe Gary Lineker's departure acts as a warning for this not acquainted with history to go around randomly reposting pro Palestinian links though I suspect he is not the only one. In a way it is a sad demise to a career but an absolutely necessary one and a timely warning that a proportion of P Palestinian supporters are anti semites.

for to say I didn't like the Gaurdian 's take that the BBC were looking to sack Gary anyway and he just have them an excuse.

Here’s an example
https://m.jpost.com/j-spot/article-824376

Virtue signalling “A term which seeks to ridicule the ideas of altruism and generosity by suggesting that they are only ever undertaken in search of admiration.”

Celebrities ARE still speaking out, as they should!

https://news.sky.com/story/bono-calls-for-israel-to-be-released-from-benjamin-netanyahu-in-plea-for-peace-13372955

Jewish people are not Jewish because they believe in a God or are religious.
The vast majority of Jewish people are so via genetics. Thus "ethnicity".
When somebody.digs up the discovered grave of a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist in a thousand years time, there will be nothing to prove that that body belonged to somebody of those tribes outside of maybe a necklace with a cross and geopolitical historical knowledge of the.area the grave was found in , leading to an anthropological assertion/guess.
Nobody is genetically Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist.

Jewish people have as natural an instinct for self preservation as anybody or amy other group.
If being Jewish was continhent upon being a Believer, I am sure that they would have converted themselves out of being in thousands of years firing line.
Just like swathes of the world's different population did when Christianity and Islam came knocking on their doors.

With differing levels of success at maintaining connections to their previous indigenous cultural "higher power" beliefs.

It is my refrain that too many anti Israel people are not too bright and most definitely do not have a clue about the Judaism, what a Jewish person is, what Israel is and her provenance or any clue about Levantine history or the provenance of the Jewish Diaspora and the hows and whys of its manifestation.
Ever heard the term "Secular Jew"?
Knowledge of that term only requires a cursory investment in popular culture via fiction reading, tv ( drama or comedy, especially from the US).

Israel is to religiosity with Judaism being its foundational cultural compass as is the UK with Christianity being the foundation for most of her laws.

Both are secular with freedom of religion.

People do not drag the notion that Israel is a Western democracy out of their arse. It is; with secularity being one of her political tenets.

Israel is a secular ethno state.
Israel is surrounded by Islamic THEOCRACIES. Islam and Christianity are Abrahamic BELIEF systems. One cannot be "half Muslim", or "half Christian".

One can be half Jewish by having a Jewish father.

One cannot be forced to be a Jew. One is a Jew. One cannot "backslide" from being a Jew.

I thought all of this was common knowledge.

What can be the basis of one country on Earth pissing so many off that it is a designated home for Jewish people?

Does one go to Jamaica needing it to be emptied out of its 95 percent unambiguously non admixed and hardly admixed Black population to try and make the anti Black determination motto "out of many, we are one" make non anti Black sense?

Or for Nigeria to not be the world's most populous Black country and be more "South African"?

Or for Japan to let go of her culture, even in the face of a diminishing and ageing population, only to become a feral mess that the pretend there is no indigenous culture "multicultural" and ghettoised nation of non common aspiration the UK rapidly becoming?

Or the repressive messes that have lost or are closely losing their original and beautiful Arab/Persian etc Islamist states that are too many in the Middle East?
There is my expounding.
I'm
I'm sick of the disingenious nature of too many anti Israel/ anti Zionist ( most don't even know what this means) posters.

Virtue signalling “A term which seeks to ridicule the ideas of altruism and generosity by suggesting that they are only ever undertaken in search of admiration.”

I don’t know if you’re just reposting this or also think it CurlewKate so this isn’t aimed at you. But anyone who thinks that must be a very black-and-white thinker. It’s not that ALL altruism and generosity is virtue signalling - and in fact most virtue-signalling is not altruism or generosity at all, it’s just boasting or mindless parroting of what someone thinks will get them brownie points. I think most people can tell the difference between someone who’s genuinely raising an important issue or contributing something to a cause, and someone who’s just showing off how wonderful and righteous they are.

it’s always existed of course but social media exacerbates it and gives people who are prone to it an irresistible platform. I was really struck by it when I first used Facebook and Twitter, how shamelessly people boasted about their good deeds or approved views and jumped on supposedly do-gooding bandwagons without any thought or questions. I didn’t actually hear the term “virtue-signalling” until later and knew exactly what it was referring to.

The above quote is actually the undermining one - making out that a phrase that really does have a meaning and reflects a well-known social behaviour, is a lie or should be shut down. I bet whoever said that is a virtue-signaller extraordinaire. Oh I see it was James o’Brien…

It’s really not hard to condemn the Israeli government and IDF’s illegal and cruel actions in Gaza without being antisemitic and throwing antisemitic images and tropes around. Lots of people are doing that including celebs, commentators, politicians etc. They specify that they are talking about the government and military actions, they may also add that Hamas are also at fault and that many Jewish people don’t support this behaviour either, for example, or at the very least they don’t post a picture of rats. I don’t think everyone should shut up about it, it’s OK to have an opinion and make comment. But when someone comments in a way that shows they’re just parroting or retweeting what they think is righteous and are too ignorant to distinguish criticism of a government from antisemitism, then yes I think they are virtue-signalling.

This is the case under Jewish law. It is a facet of the exclusivity in Judaism with the strict restrictions imposed on marrying outwith the Jewish faith.

The reason other religions don’t have the same genetic line is because they are far more welcoming to other faiths.

Welcoming or overwhelming? Religious affiliation has been weaponised.

I've heard it argued by biologists that there is no such thing as true altruism, from an animal behaviour perspective our actions are for the good of our group and our genes.

Indeed.

A biologist would argue virtue signaling is aimed at increasing social status within the group, in order to increase the likelihood of being able to reproduce.

Can't say I disagree.

I've heard this too but - there are still some people who actually do do altruistic things, and even some who do altruistic things and don't boast about it. And there are some poeple who add to debates by making considered, thought-through points. And others who parrot things because they think it will make them look good. Whatever the evolutionary motive, these are different behaviours.

I'd also question the idea that every behaviour is good for the self or the group. That's clearly not true for humans and we have numerous mechanisms for stigmatising or ejecting some behaviours (not saying that is always well applied but it certainly happens). Identifying and calling out virtue-signalling is one of them maybe.

True. It can be somewhat terrifying to realise that we are just rising (hopefully) apes. Lowland gorillas seem a peaceful bunch but chimps are ruthless.

And then there's the Bonobos 😊

@mids2019 think a lot fewer main stream celebs are wary now of virtue signalling for Palestinians and quite sensibly for their careers are avoiding this topic (except kneecap but heh). People look at how easily it is to slide into anti senitism even unwittingly and think I really don't want to engage in this topic and so sensibly it is not mentioned.
So basically you think the fear of being seen as “antisemitic” is gagging people from discussing the slaughter in Gaza? Do you feel that’s a good thing?

Still chimps though. Orangs seem pretty chilled if you leave them be..apparently they make good librarians.

In anthropomorphic terms bonobos are better behaved than chimps, and so are orangutans. I think we're closest to bonobos genetically IIRC - but it's a slippery slope understanding or having expectations of human behaviour in these ways, at least without a lot of caution. We're also related to lions and they eat their babies. And so on.

Well there are some gruesome stories from the holodomor.

Yes, anything horrific you can think of, a human has probably done it. But we also have societal functions that identify some things as unacceptable or horrifying etc - my point is we shouldn't use animals to justify human behaviour or base expectations on. There can be interesting comparisons and evolutionary advantages to some behaviours that can be understood that way, but that's not the same as saying "well our ape relatives do this so it's natural" and then "and natural = OK"

Agree. I don't think it's helpful to remember that we are just animals tho, super intelligent and super aggressive ones. It explains a lot of human behavior although obviously I don't believe it excuses it.

Well, I certainly feel better about myself if I speak out about bad things happening to other people. Better if I can do something practical, of course-but I do consider adding my voice important. And “virtue signalling” is such a dismissive, minimising way to describe person’s actions. Even if “all” they are doing is adding to awareness.

And “virtue signalling” is such a dismissive, minimising way to describe person’s actions.

Only if it's inaccurately applied. And I do think actual virtue-signalling, which does exist, is a bad thing that should be called out. It's about showing what a good person you are and often that actively means people think that's all they need to do, so it works against actual helpful behaviour. Plus as GL has shown, because virtue-signalling is empty and selfish, it's often done without understanding or thinking through what the actual issue is, understanding context, etc. So actually GL has ended up sharing a very nasty antisemitic trope to all his followers when all he was trying to do was hop on a woke bandwagon for his own glory. That's why it's a problem and different from making an actual contribution - whether to a debate or in practical terms.

@EasyTouch 99% of genetic material of humans is the same. If anyone dug any of us up in 1000 years they could not tell for certain what race they were (not to mention that race could fall under different lines then) . They might make an educated guess towards skin colour , genetic traits ect.. but we are very blended so there aren’t sharp lines dividing us and they couldn’t say for sure. Race is a social idea it doesn’t have a basis in science. Usually people say there is a scientific reason for race to justify inequality.

Scientifically we are actually all the same. It’s a social idea to break us up into different groups.

So if he hadn’t shared the emoji he wouldn’t have been “virtue signalling”? That makes no sense. Lineker had used his platform to speak out on many issues, and I understand that he has put his money where his mouth is several times as well. He appears to be a thoughtful and intelligent man who has no need to seek self aggrandisement. I can only think that people don’t like what he says-so they attack the player not the ball.

No he's not. As discussed below, he also said that he doesn't think males in women's sports is really a problem. That indicates he hasn't thought about it. He's just saying what he thinks is the woke things to say.

And yes, it's possible for a virtue-signaller to tweet/say something that's not offensive. The point is their general approach doesn't guard against it, because they don't actually care about being a bice or good person, just about appearing to be.

‘Virtue signalling’ is a bit like a new and improved ‘Jumped on the band wagon’

Everything's made up - our language , our countries , our religions - we as a species are unique in all the things we have made up and take to be truth. When in truth they have all be made up. And I just made that up !