Please someone make it stop now

[Bellahadthese]

It's heartbreaking
The gaunt, haunted images of children who are being starved to death, the amputees, the orphans, the women who used ivf to have a child that was blown to bits, the 40 newborns left to starve to death in neonatal ward
The hospitals bombed
Charity kitchens and bakeries bombed
Aid workers bombed
Tents bombs
Schools bombed
No universities left
Nothing left
I don't want to hear ooh but Israel has a right to exist
NO state that behaves like this has a right to exist
How can anyone justify Israel's stance?
This didn't start on Oct 7
This isn't about hostages
This is about human rights and why you think it's okay for Palestinians not to have any
I was a kid when Band Aid came about and remember how we raised money for Ethiopia
The fact that this is a man-made famine is abhorrent
I know there are good people in Israel- none in government sadly- but the West has blood on its hands for allowing this slaughter
Be honest you don't think that Palestinians are human do you that's why you don't care
I will never believe the western lie of democracy or human rights or freedom of speech again
It's all a big fat lie

Completely agree with you. There are no words. Just heartbreaking.

Making threads on MN will not make a difference.

Saying "I agree with you" will not make a difference.

You want change? You want it to end? Do something to help rather than trying to make yourself look empathetic or to make yourself feel better by bringing what you think is awareness when really it isn't.

It’s heartbreaking. Between this, Trump, the rise of the far right generally it does feel like the world is taking a turn into darker times. I do what is within my control, attending fundraisers and solidarity events. I’ve met some Palestinian refugees lately through English conversation volunteer work I do and I’ve been helping them out in various ways to help them settle in. Just filling out forms and stuff that is difficult when you are just learning English,

Anyway, small things but it helps to do something positive and to meet others doing the same.

I agree, its utterly heartbreaking and soul destroying.

There are no words for what those people are enduring.

I hate seeing historical footage of civilians suffering through war. If only this was a new thing. And new footage. Makes me wish people wouldn’t start wars.

I'm well aware that starting a thread on MN will not make a difference.
The UN can't make a difference, the ICJ can't make a difference, International Law can't make a difference, Keir Starmer can't make a difference even if he wanted to
Only the USA has the power to make it stop

Seeing the genocide live-streamed and desperate families begging for help does affect some of us
I just wanted to express that frustration and horror
Anyone who ISN'T horrified must be some sort of ghoul
I will never ever believe the lies of the West about democracy and freedom and equality
Lies damn lies

Hamas mesmerising peace deals it is such a shame

Seeing the genocide live-streamed and desperate families begging for help does affect some of us

is that the ones from 7/10?

7/10 started this war, it was an attack on civilian men, women and children. I would hope, if that happened where I live, my government would respond.
I don’t have an opposition to Jews having a homeland so that may be a sticking point for you.
I am very suspicious of Hamas propaganda, because propaganda is so easily understood as a mechanism of war, what they are doing is not new but the mechanism is and the way it can reach a ripe audience is.
I find myself unable to side with a cause that kills and rapes civilians including young children, whatever the cause. This is not specific to Hamas and Israel, I lived through the Troubles and had regular bomb drills etc during my childhood and school years.
I will admit, I will, when the chips are down, side with Jews over Muslims due to religious and cultural ideals. And that impacts my views.
Despite this, I have had many Islamic friends, i know that Islam has many different ideological strands, it is specifically politicised Islam that I am against. I don’t think it is a core part of their religion ideologically but socially right now, and for decades, it has been. I do not support Islamists. I do not believe that Islamist ideals are the true reflection of Muslims in any area. I am given to understand (through SM so up for debate) that some Palestinians have protested against Hamas. I hope this is true but am wary given the history of that area and how content is manufactured But equally the Muslims that I have known are not represented by the terrorists shown in Hamas propaganda or the protestors on the streets of the UK.
Either way, according to some my rational is racist. So be it.

@OppsUpsSide

I think I can agree with you that the danger lies in the politicalisation of religion. When people start thinking their religion justifies their violence, well that’s always a dangerous place to be.

And of course I would also not side with anyone that targets civilians especially children.

So it seems we have much in common.

@OppsUpsSide There aren’t any sides to take here. Palestinians have been killed due to settler violence, displaced homes, arrested without due cause etc. 7/10 did not start this war. This isn’t about Muslims vs Jews or vice versa. Not all Jews agree with Israel and to only mention “Hamas propaganda” without mentioning Israeli propaganda is being disingenuous. This NY Times article mentions children being shot in the head. But somehow criticising the IDF is akin to agreeing with Hamas.

If people think they are the chosen people then they can excuse almost anything and dehumanise almost anyone who is not them.

It’s a tale as old as time and doesn’t get any better with the retelling.

Doesn’t every religion claim that their members are the chosen people? I’m an athiest so this one always gets me when people levels this at Jewish people. I had a muslim friend who told me in no uncertain terms that I was going to hell and needed to convert because they thought I was a nice person and they would hate for me to end up there.

Women were raped, we saw the evidence on their blood stained trousers. Whatever else you may think about the conflict denying that women were raped is disgraceful. There was also violent sexual torture, women had nails hammered into genitals and breasts cut off. I want an end to this war for the sake of the Palestinians just as much as anyone. But Hamas apologists disgust me.

The 1980s Ethiopia situation you mentioned is a good analogy. Ethiopia had plenty of food. Sadly it also had a corrupt government which used its people as pawns.

You say on the USA can stop it? How are you proposing they do that? USA intervention in other countries doesn't have a good track record for success.

Agree. At this point, anyone who claims 7/10 rapes didn't happen is at best wilfully ignorant.

Rape doesn't even cover a fraction of the psychopathy shown on 7/10....and people in my country celebrated it whilst saying Israelis & Jews deserved it.

Make it stop indeed.

Yes, for me this isn’t an issue even particular to this conflict but rape denial is just horrific, especially on a forum for women, many who have experienced violence and or sexual assault. Should we not believe some women because we’ve decided we just don’t like their nationality, ethnicity or religion. The rape of an Israeli woman is just as vile as the rape of a Palestinian woman or a Sudanese woman.

If OP wants to defend rapists, she is of course free to do so. But I wish she would do it honestly rather than pretending it just didn’t happen.

Note to mumsnet I wouldn’t want to see this thread taken down, I’d prefer that everyone see exactly how rape as a weapon is dismissed when it’s “our side” doing it.

OP Hamas are currently executing Gazans who are protesting against them. I assume you think they aren’t doing that either.

They would just need to withdraw military support for Israel, and place sanctions on them. But I hate our Government waiting around for the US to act (it's obvious that Trump and Netanyahu are two cheeks of the same arse anyway). Keir Starmer and the rest of Europe need to cease all trade (of any kind) with Israel, and place whatever sanctions they can on them. They also need to to loudly shout Genocide and war crimes loudly every bloody day! Instead they weakly sit around wringing their hands too scared to upset Trump.

OP I hear you, I have sleepless nights over this.

@quantumbutterfly Where has anyone said that any rape was deserved? Over decades, Palestinians have been illegally detained and then shot, raped etc. The Israeli army has been killing innocent civilians before the existence of Hamas. This isn’t anything new. That does not justify what happened on 7/10, nor does it excuse Israel’s actions afterwards. The loss of innocent life is inexcusable. And yet, Palestinian children have been shot dead before 7/10 and this has continued after 7/10. Ceasefire does not mean that settler violence can continue, drones targeting people and their families, being assaulted at checkpoints, and homes can still be bulldozed etc. All of this was going on before, during and after constant ceasefires. Again, nothing justifies what happened on 7/10, but Palestinians have been living in an apartheid state for decades and to ignore that is being disingenuous.

Hamas can end all of this right now by surrendering, handing control of Gaza over to the PA, and returning those hostages.

All the rest can flow from that.

I can fully understand why Israel will not stop until Hamas are finished and I think if any one of is were living next door to a terrorist state we'd expect our country to act similarly.

Even West Bank Palestinians are calling for Hamas to end it. We should be shouting with them.

It’s undeniable that rape happened on 7/10.

This is a UN report on it.

https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm

I don’t think it takes away from the horror of what is happening in Gaza now.