Anti Israel Rhetoric is rife. Why?

[cindyhove]

As of April 5, 2025, numerous armed conflicts are ongoing worldwide, varying in scale and intensity. According to the Geneva Academy of International Humanitarian Law and Human Rights, over 110 armed conflicts are currently being monitored, encompassing both international and non-international engagements.
why is israel the only one to be demonised out of the current 110 conflicts?
The answer is blindingly obvious

From NATO, I assume you'll find this an independent and reliable source?

https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf

The point you are missing is that I don't believe that it is a mistake to shoot 3 people waving white flags. I don't believe it is a mistake to shoot 15 people one by one. I don't believe it is a mistake to kill a 6 year old who has been sat in a car for hours with her dead family. I don't believe it is a mistake to bomb aid workers.

How do you point your gun at 15 people one by one mistakenly? You can't. How do you mistakenly shoot 3 people who are unarmed waving white flags? You can't. They aimed and they fired and they killed. They have done this repeatedly.

This isn't the odd civillian getting injured or killed. This is aiming and firing repeatedly at civillians. Like @dairydebris said, shoot first ask questions later. This is the problem. Aim at and shoot 3 men waving a white flag and then ask who they are. Aim at and fired at 15 men 1 by 1 and then ask who they are. Aim at and fire at an aid convoy and then ask who they are. This is the problem and it isn't a 'mistake' it's a strategy and it's wrong.

I don’t think the poster was disputing that Hamas use Palestinian civilians as human shields.

They were saying (as you asked for other examples of this happening in wars) that the abhorrent practice of doing so isn’t unique to Hamas, I think?

Exactly. I don't expect anyone Israeli, Palestinian, Sudanese, Ukrainian, Russian to be aimed at and fired in when they are clearly unarmed and clearly waving white flags.

I'd fully expect any soldier to shoot first and think later.

@dairydebris words. She fully expects that soldiers will fire at anyone, kill them and then wonder who they are. That's not a mistake. How is that a 'mistake'? That's shooting at anything that moves. I can't support that type of strategy. Clearly others can. And if you support shooting anything or anyonr that moves then your standards are on the floor.

I agree I think that the phrase “I’d fully expect any soldier to shoot first and think later” is deeply troubling. I appreciate that in war everything is heightened and the pressure / fear soldiers face is unimaginable. But I can’t get on board with making the expectation shoot first and think later. And I think most soldiers would be incredibly offended if people said that was what they expected of them.

Where have I said I didn't think Hamas ever used human shields?

Have you read even that report? It also points out that Israel uses Palestinians as human shields and references the Goldstone report for its evidence that both Hamas and Israel targeted civilians

Presumably, as that report also cites the ICC as supporting evidence, you'll be accepting both the reports assertion that Israel uses human shields, targets civilians and repeatedly breaks International law and the INC'S judgements on Israel?

Under International law, there are standards set for conflict, the most important of which are those of “distinction” and “proportionality.” Distinction refers to the obligation to distinguish between the (binary) categories of military and civilian. However, even in the case of a legitimate military target, under the principle of proportionality, civilian harm is justified only if it is not excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.

So, even in the unlikely event that Israel's claims are true (and there's enough evidence of their lies to suggest otherwise) there simply isn't a justification for the levels of civilian deaths.

I think there are 2 separate points: mistakes are made in war very often I image but that particular incident needs to be investigated, (as I said before) as I agree it sounds more than just a mistake.

Still no comment about the urban wars you know where there have been no friendly fire accidents & no civilians killed?

We all know such calm & polite wars don’t exist. Which brings us back yet again to why oh why did Hamas start one with an opponent with such a mismatched military power? Are the Palestinian people just pawns in their game as some have suggested? I don’t know - would like an answer from a pro Palestinian person.

Maybe, to me they sounded like they were just being dismissive.

Define those civilian deaths, because Hamas lists every dead and wounded combatant in those lists. How many of the dead and injured are civilians and how many are enemy combatants?

'Amid Israel's allegations that Hamas is using civilians as human shields, the Palestinian group said that the safety of civilians is the responsibility of Israel and the United Nations. The comment was made by Mousa Abu Marzouk, a Hamas official, when he was asked about the group's decision to not allow civilians to take shelter in the tunnels beneath Gaza which are used by Hamas fighters.'

https://www.hindustantimes.com/videos/world-news/gaza-civilians-not-our-responsibility-hamas-puts-onus-on-israel-un-as-death-toll-crosses-8000-101698736271078.html

The full interview with Marzouk can be found via this link

Why isn't there more international pressure on Hamas to look after the civilians who voted them into power? Are any of the pro-Palestinian protestors starting to ask questions, especially after Hamas murdered Palestinians who took part in protests in the last few days. You have an elected government killing its own people.

There are still hostages being kept in Gaza, not all of them alive, some were killed in captivity, others were murdered on October 7th and Hamas took their bodies, this in itself is a war crime. Where are the civil rights activists? And where is the pressure on Hamas to look after Gaza?

But I never claimed that that has happened why would I comment on it

I have read the report, did you read this bit?

'It is worth noting that the IDF also used Palestinian citizens as human shields on past occasions, especially in its operation in the West Bank. However, this practice was declared unlawful by the Israeli Supreme Court, and several officers were court martialled for applying the technique.'

I honest to god can't believe that in 2025 I have to defend my position that shooting at anything that moves or 'shoot first ask questions later' is wrong and not something we should expect of soldiers being paid to do a job. It's absolute insanity. And that's why this conflict is getting so much coverage because never before in my life have I seen normal everyday people defending a countries right to shoot at anyone who moves then question who they might be. Surprisingly enough that generates disgust.

In Israel using human shields is declared unlawful and perpetrators are punished, while in Gaza the actual government itself does it on a daily basis while declaring they have no responsibility to keep their citizens safe

Quite a difference

Not sure that you can compare being a combatant in a brutal war to some 9-5 job...

No you are right. They have so much more responsibility. People's lives are in their hands, that's why you don't shoot at people and kill people just because and then wonder who they are. Why do I have to say this? Wtf.

Defending the killing of unarmed, white flag waving Israelis with of course they were shot. You shoot first ask questions later. How tasteless of you to question this

It's war. It happened in Iraq and Afghanistan too, read some accounts from war reporters, I can recommend a book I've read if you're interested. No one is saying it is right, or condoning it, but it happens. War is dreadful and horrific. But this war isn't one that Israel asked for or started, they were forced into it and a lot of the soldiers would have known or been related to some of the hostages, it's a very small country with close knit communities that had just suffered the worst attack on its people since the Holocaust

It is utterly ridiculous how Israel is held to such an impossible standard, far higher than any other country

I can't remember if you're the poster that called me callous yesterday, but maybe I am just more of a realist having read military accounts of warfare etc

Ok what about the rest of my post?

Indeed, they are expected to be right 100% of the time , in battle , under fire , scared, paranoid, tired.....

When my boys get >90% I'm proud of them, ask them where they think they dropped marks and encourage them to get 100%, luckily they get the chance to learn from their mistakes, they're not surgeons, bomb disposal techs., or soldiers on the frontline of a bloody war.🙄

&btw please point to where I said they should shoot first and ask questions later.

Oh for God's sake. How ridiculous.

I suggest if you know any way to wage an urban war against an enemy that doesn't distinguish itself from its own civilians without any civilian casualties or friendly fire incidents then you are absolutely wasted here on mumsnet and should immediately present yourself to the MOD because people are dying out there without your wisdom. You could revolutionize warfare forever. You'll definitely win the Nobel Peace prize.

No one here has defended anyone's right to shoot people on sight. No one. We're simply saying if you start an urban war, expect urban casualties. Hamas certainly did. Called them necessary sacrifices. Unfortunate for Gaza that Hamas don't care about saving civilian life but you can certainly do plenty of good with many other armies when you explain to them how to analyze a target with 100% accuracy while under fire themselves. Something no army has managed, ever. The world is waiting for you! You've got this!

@Twiglets1

Still no comment about the urban wars you know where there have been no friendly fire accidents and no civilians killed?

I’m unsure why you’re asking that poster to comment on something they’ve never claimed? They haven’t said there are urban wars, or any wars, with no friendly fire or civilian deaths. Why do you keep asking them to name one?

Again from the NATO report, in case anyone doesn't know how Hamas views the people who elected them into power

From Page 154

Hamas Narratives

Israel commits war crimes, indiscriminately killing Palestinian civilians.
The Palestinian people support Hamas unconditionally, even if that means risking civilian lives.
It is the Palestinian people’s religious and national duty to serve as human
shields, in order to serve the resistance and support its cause.
Israel’s early warning messages prior to an airstrike are psychological warfare.

Hamas (via spokespeople)
2006: “The citizens will continue defending their pride and houses and will continue to serve as human shields until the enemy will withdraw.”
2014: “The fact that people are willing to sacrifice themselves against Israeli warplanes in order to protect their homes, I believe this strategy is proving itself. And we, Hamas, call on our people to adopt this practice.”
2014: “Hamas despise those defeatist Palestinians that criticize the high number of civilian casualties. The resistance praises our people…we lead our people to death…I mean, to war.”

Ismail Haniyeh, former Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority (2006-2014), Head of Hamas Political Bureau in Gaza (since 2017)
2006: Citizens were encouraged to gather at Muhammad Baroud’s house (a prominent PRC combatant) in Jabaliya refugee camp, after the IDF issued a warning. Following the event, Haniyeh stated: “I believe that what has happened tonight will be a role model… an example to our Palestinian people and a clear message, that the [Zionist] aggression will not break our will.”
2008: “Israel threatens to bombard houses [in which freedom fighters live], but hundreds and thousands of Palestinians climb to those houses rooftops in the middle of the night to defend those houses.”

Fathi Hamad, Hamas MP
2008: “For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry […]. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly and the mujahideen

This!

I find all the armchair military experts who have likely never even been further than nice, safe tourist hotspots around the world, let alone in a powder keg battleground in the Middle East, absolutely absurd.

Well you seem to think it’s possible for the IDF to conduct a war without friendly fire accidents or civilian deaths. To some of us those things are inevitable in a war ( so don’t start one!) to others they are things to berate the IDF for.

We still have people on here defending the indefensible I see.