The worst humanitarian crisis and people displacement

[ImmediateReaction]

Sudan.

Barely on the news. Channel 4 currently is discussing the worst humanitarian crisis currently ( its NOT occurring in Gaza). People are actually REALLY starving and eating rats and leaves from the trees.

No marches, no flag waving, no slogans, no student interest, no protest on campus, no symbol wearing. We all know exactly why. No interest at all.

Possibly works on app or if you have premium?
I don’t have private messaging atm

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/5280126-disabled-private-messages

@Martymcfly24 here's a thread in Site Stuff about private messages. MN have commented on the thread too, so you can see who might be able to answer your queries. I don't think @mnhq works - I think you need to @ individual people.

Thanks a million @Scirocco

But protests are often about trying to persuade the government into acting against something or just drawing attention to an issue, like protesting about climate change. If Sudan mattered enough in the minds of ‘caring’ activists, there’d be protests highlighting suffering and urging intervention.

So the thing that marks out protests condemning Israel can’t be the government’s position on it. No, it must be something else.

Why have you written ‘caring’

Climate protest is very much about persuading the government or some other target to do something. Raising awareness is not a top priority of organised protests, there is always a call to action and a target for that action, otherwise it would never achieve anything.

However that is not the only reason that Sudan hasn’t had media pick up.

Opinion not fact.

It's actually started a discussion on Sudan.

Because I think many Gaza protestors don’t care about Palestinians at all. Their reasons for protesting lie elsewhere.

As for what protests seek, I think we mostly agree. What’s curious is the virtually one-issue nature of calls to action to the government. Why so much effort to change policy towards Israel and not intervention in Sudan or other beleaguered places in the world?

Is this just anti Irish sentiment from you or are you just uninformed?

I'm in Ireland and have seen and taken part in multiple fund raisers for Sudan, there have been marches for Sudan. The Irish government is giving more per head of population than the UK to the Sudanese crisis.

There is not just space for 'thinking about Sudan' there is also action taking place too. If you are in Ireland here is an event taking place this weekend to help you stop thinking and start acting.

Sudan continues to have a high profile within Islamic charities and groups. I'm signed up to several weekly and monthly newsletters from charities and Sudan is regularly either the headline article/appeal or featured prominently. We have regular fundraising activities near us which raise money for a variety of countries - including Sudan.

I was responding to a pp who said “The UK government is aiding and abetting Israel as it commits genocide against the Palestinian people. That's why people are protesting in the UK. “ I asked why Irish people were protesting because I didn’t think the Irish government were “ aiding and abetting Israel..”
You've misunderstood my original point .
Quite an unnecessarily aggressive tone btw

Can I ask why you said that there 'should be space to think about Sudan as well' then? What gave you the impression that there was no space to think about Sudan when clearly there is space actively been given to Sudan and many others?

To be honest your post did irritate me. There is so much time, effort and money being given by a lot of people towards Sudan and your post and others on this thread have appeared to be very dismissive of the work that is being done by ordinary people around their busy lives and families to try and help in whatever way they can. These posters seem more concerned with scoring points on an Internet forum than researching what is being done and more importantly how they can help. If people are actively engaged in local activist groups and charitable endeavours then they would be already be aware of the work that is being done all around them ranging from big to small for these causes and would not be so dismissive.

Are you Irish? Do you know the discourse around both Gaza and Sudan in Ireland? There is a list of things surrounding both that activists would like the government to do to take action to try and help. Many do believe the government is aiding and abetting Israel by allowing the trade with and providing economic support to illegal settlements in occupied territories, aiding Israel in profiting from stolen land and resources.

What was wrong with saying “there should be space to think about Sudan as well then”?
You’ve just told me it’s happening in Ireland - great . I’m pleased to hear it. You have assumed I am not one of the “ordinary people with busy lives and families trying to help in whatever way they can.” What makes you assume that?

You seem to have made a lot of assumptions about me based on a couple of one line posts.
There is no need to assume people are always trying to score points.
( Also - if you answer in a condescending tone you are not exactly helping to discourage point scoring…

It’s good to hear that many people are actively doing things to support the people in Sudan .
My point wasn’t really anything to do with criticism of individual posters (or any individuals at all )
It was more to do with the lack of attention given to Sudan by the mainstream media.

Sound. It's a bit of an odd thing to say when you are well aware that there is space being made for Sudan as well and literally nobody was saying that there shouldn't be space for them.

That’s fine . But There should be space to think about Sudan as well… seems to imply that you think somebody is stopping people from thinking about Sudan too which you would know isn't true if you are actively engaged with people who are very much thinking of Sudan and following that through with their actions.

Unless of course you are engaged in fundraising and activism for Sudan and somebody is trying to stop you? I know in the UK there was a lot of push back trying to stop pro Palestinian activism, is it the same there for your activism directed at Sudan?

Re a discussion about Sudan
”literally nobody was saying that there shouldn't be space for them.”
There were two ( now deleted) comments in the very first page of this thread that appeared to attempt to shut down or deflect from this conversation about Sudan. Maybe you missed those?

Im not sure why you felt the facetious comment in your last paragraph was necessary.

The thread was asking why the huge humanitarian crisis in Sudan appears to be largely ignored when compared to how much air time other countries receive. It is certainly true that some receive more air time, attention, demonstrations etc than others.

Unfortunately, as usual, this means insults, deflecting and anything but an answer that might explain that. Quite a few comments were deleted so I assume that they were reported as breaching guidelines.

Anyway, some useful information shared, and I see another poster managed to get a thread up and running afterwards, also sharing information and hopefully that isn't derailed or sabotaged. There is room for discussion on more than one conflict on the CITME threads. I just avoid threads that I'm not interested in and I wish others would do the same. Within the other thread a poster made incorrect comments about what this thread was about and I chose not to answer this since I don't want to derail that thread by addressing it. I feel so sad for the innocents in all conflicts and a bit moreso for those largely ignored for various reasons.

There are many reasons why some conflicts gain more sympathy, publicly, protests etc, than others. A range of reasons, (not exhaustive) ranging from IMO, lack of mobile phones in Sudan so information doesn't get out, political reasons due to Israel, general racism, anti semitism, trending issues, what is seen more on social media, what the mainstream media focus on the most (Currently Ukraine and Gaza and not Sudan), etc. Thanks for the likes, agreement emojis. I realise not everyone feels they can comment (don't blame them) especially when it appears sometimes impossible to just discuss in a rational way why some conflicts receive more sympathy than others. Perhaps it touches at the inequity, bias or racism or anti semitism, or something else. 🤔 which brings out the now deleted comments.

@ImmediateReaction

There are many reasons why an international conflict would receive more news than a civil war. It is true that the Israel Palestinian conflict has received much more airtime on main stream media than other conflicts but this is true of both sides so to imply it is due to anti semitism is disingenuous.Buildings lit up in orange for the Bibas family and international marches for the release of the Israeli hostages coincide with the pro Palestinian weekly marches and the supports such as the vandalism in Scotland or the college protests.

The European Union Agency for Asylum recently in a report stated about Sudan "Meanwhile, the conflict remains largely underreported. A crackdown on local media outlets, and repeated communication blackouts, have severely hindered reporting capabilities across the country, making the conflict in Sudan a ‘forgotten war’."

I also actually found this article very interesting
https://www.voanews.com/a/africa-s-humanitarian-crises-underreported-amid-conflicts-in-europe-middle-east-/7444130.html especially the amount of articles on the Barbie movie and Harrys book compared to suffering of those in Africa.

We should never forget about the absolute horror these people are living through (rape of men and women seems to be an overused war crime here) but it is not a competiton. Every single humanitarian injustice should be shouted from the rooftops and given the airtime it deserves.

Thanks.
Yes - I agree with all of that.
Unfortunately there are so many terrible situations in the world not all get the attention they should . But of course it shouldn’t be like that..

As I said many reasons.

The anti semitism is true for some, not all, and again included in a range of reasons, yet described again as disingenuous, not sincere! Yet other reasons given acceptable reasons. 🤔

To some Israel shouldn't exist and anti semitism exists, so why on earth is it insincere to suggest one of the reasons for less coverage is anti semitism. Why is it so difficult for some to accept anti semitism exists and is a reason for outcomes.

Anti semitism exists. There is no denying that.

Your original post made it very clear (in a coded way)that you felt it was the only reason for the over reporting of the situation in Gaza . I was attempting to argue that while it may be a factor the suffering of Israelis was also arguably a much bigger news item than Sudan which could not be classed as anti semitic.

Channel 4 currently is discussing the worst humanitarian crisis currently ( its NOT occurring in Gaza). People are actually REALLY starving and eating rats and leaves from the trees.
No marches, no flag waving, no slogans, no student interest, no protest on campus, no symbol wearing. We all know exactly why. No interest at all.

it is not anti semitic to report truthfully and honestly on wrongdoings and anti humanitarian actions of the IDF and the Israeli government.
Should they get a pass for war crimes due to their ethnicity?

We should not report on Gaza less, there is space on the news for Gaza and Sudan.
(Maybe stop giving Trump airtime for his shit stirring but that's a whole new thread)

I don't know what was 'facetious' about my comment? I was trying to understand where you are coming from. There has been a lot of people in the UK trying to shut down people advocating for Palestinians, I was trying to understand if it was the same for people advocating for those in Sudan and perhaps that is why you seem so adamant despite a lot of evidence to the contrary if you care to look that there is no space for Sudan.

As for the deleted comments they were in relation to the awful opening post which is not even a truthful representation of what is happening. It was intended to have a go at the people that have gotten off their arses and advocated for those in Gaza rather than show any caring at all towards the Sudanese that are suffering. In my experience there is a lot of cross over between those who are advocating for Palestinians and those who are advocating for Sudanese people. The vast majority of fundraisers and marches now have some level of recognition for the suffering of both. And this is what the OP spoke about No marches, no flag waving, no slogans, no student interest, no protest on campus, no symbol wearing. We all know exactly why. No interest at all. I can only presume that her lack of interest in any of it means she doesn't realise what is going on on the ground.

I have to agree. Your post was in poor taste to say the least. It’s too much of a leap for me to believe that the underreporting on Sudan has something to do with anti semitism. I’m all ears if anyone can prove otherwise.

Nonetheless it has resulted in a very interesting thread. Having worked in the international aid sector I’m personally fascinated with what crisis captures public attention and why.

Openjng thread.

Sudan.

Barely on the news TRUE

Channel 4 currently is discussing the worst humanitarian crisis currently TRUE
( its NOT occurring in Gaza) TRUE . People are actually REALLY starving and eating rats and leaves from the trees. TRUE

No marches, no flag waving, no slogans, no student interest, no protest on campus, no symbol wearing. PARTIALLY TRUE (I've seen several protests and never seen a Sudanese flag on those I've seen, obviously some have seen them, predominantly Palestinian flags though. Chanting support to Houthis and singing Hamas ditties, very little mention of Sudan, in my area those marching haven't mentioned them). Everyone's experience is different and I'm not the only one who feels threatened near the marchers, seen the anti semitism and watched as anyone mentioning Hamas is shut down or needs protection. Strange that.

It's so predictable, and probably why, or might be a reason why, CITME has the same posters dominating the threads, shouting down oposing views, and little interest from the masses on MN. Why would most people post when met with 'not true, didn't happen, nothing to see here, and similar type responses and insults 🙄.

”I was trying to understand if it was the same for people advocating for those in Sudan and perhaps that is why you seem so adamant despite a lot of evidence to the contrary if you care to look that there is no space for Sudan”

I’m afraid I don’t really understand your point here?

“Having worked in the international aid sector I’m personally fascinated with what crisis captures public attention and why.”

I’m not sure fascinating is the word I’d use .

Since you have experience of the International Aid sector what are the factors you believe has led to Gaza receiving more attention than Sudan?
( Note I am NOT saying Gaza does not deserve media attention. There is a humanitarian crisis there and the world should be informed about what is happening. I’m simply asking why Sudan hasn’t received the same attention in your opinion)