Shiri Bibas and children

[whatwouldyoudoifisangoutofkey]

I don't understand how it's known how they died.
I think speculating on how a person died is against MN talk guidelines but does anyone know what % of certainty we can have in the reports ?

My heart breaks for this family. They were killed by Hamas, the specifics of how or when doesn't matter. They should never have been taken.

Hamas and the civilians supporting them tortured and killed them. HTH.

Oh and then they celebrated their death.

It’s awful… poor woman, poor children. Hamas is evil… but so is the Israeli response. An Israeli death is not worth more than a Palestinian mother and children’s death.
The ( mostly men) who continue this war should be put together and kill each other and leave the innocents on both sides out of it.

The video of them being taken by civilians is just heart breaking that poor man not knowing and having to live with that. I think her parents were killed to just barbaric

Because of the post mortems. Death by strangulation leaves distinctive evidence (fracture of the hyoid bone, petechiae etc) , and it is also possible to tell if injuries were inflicted after death rather than before (ie the mutilation with rocks in an attempt to simulate a death from an air strike).
As well as physical examination, they use tools like CT scans.

Israel are also sharing their findings with international agencies, who will be able verify.

Autopsies have been performed and Israel has said they will share the results because nobody trusts Jews and thinks genocidal terrorists are more likely to be telling the truth. They filmed themselves killing babies on 7 October- what makes you think it’s unlikely that they murdered these two with their bare hands? I hope with everything that Shiri did not have to witness that.

They use forensic pathology techniques to examine the bodies carefully is how.

I think what you are really saying is how can you trust what the Israeli authorities say, yet I expect you believe 100 per cent of the rubbish coming out of Gaza.

God help the poor people who have to do these autopsies.

Forensic pathology, same way all crimes are investigated when bodies are found.
Very telling that Israel feels it has to share the results of autopsies.

It seemed perfectly acceptable for it to be said the Israelis killed them in airstrikes? Yet this appears not to be the case we mustn't speculate on how they died?

Those poor souls doing the autopsies and the poor families hearing the details of their loved ones final moments.

@ArtTheClown
Looking through the news reports this morning I did not see any saying anything other than that Israel said the children were murdered by the terrorists with their bare hands.Were you simply explaining what ‘with their bare hands’ could mean? Or was your description based on a news report? If the latter, please would you give a link?

I did see that Ynet news (Israeli) said it was the Al-Muhajadeen. It is the first time I heard this terrorist group were involved.

An aspect that has become clear, reported in Ynet news in addition to the Al-Muhajadeen murder of the babies, is that
Israel had actually known all along, since November 2023, that Sheri Bibas and her babies were dead. Middle Eastern Eye also reports Israel knew.

Ynet also suggests that Israel turned down receiving their bodies from Hamas during the November 2023 release. Ynet also asks why their release was negotiated for, very early on when they were alive, on humanitarian grounds - as it was for two women released late October 2023.

Middle Eastern Eye also states Israel knew in November 2023 that they were dead.
Links:

Ynet
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bymwpthqye

Middle Eastern Eye
www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-says-it-knew-bibas-family-was-dead-despite-claiming-they-might-be-alive

......and the conclusion to your ghoulish speculation is that Israel is at fault not the psychopaths who abducted them, (killed her parents in cold blood, tormented her husband...) ????

@ScrollingLeaves it's interesting that you're regurgitating Hamas propaganda while sneakily trying to cast doubt on Israeli pathology findings.

Not a good look, tbh.

Also, your sources:
"Middle Eastern Eye - Controversies. The website is accused by governments of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt and Bahrain of supporting the political campaign of the Muslim Brotherhood by creating biased news that supported the Muslim Brotherhood."

I completely agree. I don’t understand how this gets lost.

It’s awful… poor woman, poor children. Hamas is evil… but so is the Israeli response

Do you have an alternative suggestion for what Israel should have done after October 7?

It doesn't get lost. This thread is about the Bibas family, an Israeli family. It would be respectful to keep it somewhat to topic. There's plenty of other threads where other aspects of the conflict can be discussed.

Hang on, I don’t understand your point about it being acceptable to be said they were killed in airstrikes? There was no way of verifying that before their bodies were returned to Israel (at least for the general population- I am sure the military of any country has more information than they share with the world) so I am not sure anyone was ‘accepting’ that. Rather they were accepting that was all that could be known at that time?

Now they are back in Israel, they deserve the truth of their story to be told, whether that is they were murdered by Hamas or they died in an airstrike - regardless of how difficult that is for either ‘side’ to hear.

However they died - it does not take away from the fact they deserved to grow up in peace and safety and they should not have been there. Whatever your political view on this dreadful war, kidnapping and holding babies hostage is never ever going to lead to freedom and safety for any nation. My heart is broken for so many stories coming out of this war, and probably for so many of the stories we don’t hear. It is absolutely desperate.

It seemed acceptable to blame Israel? Hamas said they were killed in airstrikes and many many people had no problem believing that.

I think Israel will release all details relating to this. It doesn't make sense for them not to sadly.
Based on how other women and children were murdered on 7th October, there's every likelihood this was similar. I imagine Israel will release the autopsy for the mother too. Again, based on the other killings, it is very possible that the results will be graphic so it is likely they would want to discuss with her family before releasing details.
The horrors of October 7th have been widely documented. I have found it deeply disturbing how easily people wave away the most brutal atrocities with a 'Yes, but.." just because the victims are Israeli.
I knew antisemitism was still a thing, but seeing just how deep it still runs has been a shock.

But surely that was the only information the public had at the time? Now they are back in Israel (and I have just read that Shiri’s body has been confirmed) the truth can - and should be- found.

1. They should never have been taken
2. Their bodies should have been released sooner
3. Grieving family members ought to have been given all intell
4. All inquests on both sides ought to be transparent

Of course it should 😕 my point is some people will never stop believing Israel is at fault for everything, even with ALL the evidence in the world.

Think I'll leave it at that. To much morphine in me and will end up banned.

Stunningly naive.

Hamas are a terrorist group and no one should be regurgitating their disgusting propaganda. Anyone who, at this stage, repeats the foul lie that the Bibas family were killed in an air strike, is spreading Hamas's toxic myths whether they are aware that that's what they're doing or not. Furthermore, derailing discussions of the Bibas children with whataboutism is instantly recognisable as what it is: anti Jewish hate masquerading under a facade of compassion.

I have not seen a single thread about these babies that hasn't been derailed into blaming Israel and Israelis.