Why do you support Palestine?

[Wildflowers99]

After the horrific kidnapping of the Bibas family and the horrific murder of the mother and her two small children, the time has come to ask British supporters of Palestine why.

A significant number of Palestinians want Sharia law. This is not a conflict of politics to them - it’s a conflict of religion. Therefore, it’s simply a case of Islam must dominate no matter what. 4 in 10 support the attacks in October 2023, which was the mass rape, torture and murder of Israelis using the most psychopathic methods imaginable - not to mention the kidnappings.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/11/amid-the-ceasefire-wrangling-how-popular-is-hamas-in-gaza-now

While I am devastated by the killing of Gazan children in air strikes, and have always supported a ceasefire, I cannot support any advancing of the Palestinian state because I do not want to further a state with views such as those above.

So, please can I ask why you support Palestine as a state? I find it painful watching people blindly marching and demanding support for a state who are opposed to everything they stand for.

Yes omg…

For fuck's sake, I will say for the last time that I am not advocating for little girls in Gaza to live in a hardline Islamic state. I don't want that for them at all, and I would be grateful if you could stop attributing opinions to me that I have clearly stated that I don't hold.

I don't share your assumption that this is necessarily how an independent Palestinian state would turn out and I simply don't accept your perspective that this would be an inevitable consequence of a two state solution.

Anyway, I'm waiting to hear what wonderful alternative you have in mind for those little girls in Gaza. I presume that you have something better to offer them than living as displaced people in occupied territories and regularly having the shit bombed out of them by the Israelis? How do you propose to give them a better future than the terrible lives that their mothers and grandmothers have been forced to endure. I'm all ears.

The removal of settlers was a security (and political) decision. Not done for the benefit of “the Arabs of Gaza” and no-one can really believe that gazan’s daily life was not still controlled by Israel. . And the numbers of settlers still grew after this in East Jerusalem and the West Bank so this was clearly never the start of a process to greater Palestinian autonomy (and never claimed to be).

I will say for the last time that I am not advocating for little girls in Gaza to live in a hardline Islamic state.

You can say you’re not advocating for it but what do you think will happen if not a state under Sharia law? Time and time again surveys of Palestinian opinion show they want a state run according to Sharia law. I’m not making this up, it isn’t scaremongering, it’s fact.

You need to face the fact 2 of your values are in conflict here, and admit you’re prioritising one over the other.

I value democracy but I don’t value it more than I value the right to live free from state ordered religious education, violence and misogyny. If Parliament voted to flog women publicly for infidelity tomorrow, I would not accept this as democracy, I would want it to be blocked by whatever means possible. So if that makes me undemocratic - fine. I’m happy to occupy that space.

@Wildflowers99 Then why isn’t Afghanistan being bombed into non-existence?

It is very clear that Israel wants the Palestinian’s land. A fear of neighbouring a country being governed by Sharia law doesn’t justify them taking it.

I personally consider circumcision barbaric but I don’t think that gives anyone the right to bomb Israel into non-existence.

I also think it’s extremely distasteful to use a women’s rights argument to justify the killing of tens of thousands of woman.

Because Afghanistan didn’t launch an all out assault on them, raping/torturing/murdering over 1000 people?

Are you completely devoid of critical thinking skills?

@Wildflowers99 No I’m not, but it appears you are. Palestine having self determination and deciding how it is governed, and October 7 are two different issues. They didn’t do what they did because of or under Sharia law. It’s convenient to say they did though. It fits Israel’s narrative and justifies their destruction of Palestine.

Palestinians consider this to be a religious rather than political war. So yes, it is religiously motivated. Read the link.

OK, so still no solutions to suggest then?

I'm getting bored of you insisting that a Palestinian state would inevitably turn into some kind of Islamic version of a fascist state. You don't know that, and it doesn't become fact simply because you keep repeating it.

I'm afraid I'm not prepared to keep going round and round in circles on this. I've made my position clear, and for all that you keep trying to twist my words, I retain the view that a two-state solution is the best way forward. If you have some genuine suggestions to offer about what you would do to resolve the situation, then I would be happy to engage, but I'm just not interested in going over the same old ground over and over again.

Again, you’re showing your lack of capacity for critical thinking. Palestinians thinking that the war is more religious than political doesn’t mean that Sharia law condones or permits the actions of October 7.

It could as easily mean they feel persecuted because of their religion, and/ or that the land has religious significance for both sides which is why they don’t wish to surrender it, amongst many other interpretations. Israel doesn’t get to have a monopoly on claiming religious persecution.

See above links from Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch regarding the Palestinians treatment leading up to this and Israel’s human rights abuses unwillingness to surrender control of Gaza before October 7.

Your alternative solution is still missing and that is very telling, isn't it? There is no alternative, maybe?

Exactly. All that the OP has done on this thread is tell us why she doesn't think that the Palestinian people can be trusted to govern themselves. She has nothing constructive to offer.

Please can you tell me how it would not turn into a fascist state when it overwhelmingly wants Sharia law which is, in its very nature, a right wing theocracy?

You seem to be convinced of something which all evidence says would not happen.

Israel doesn’t get to have a monopoly on claiming religious persecution.

After the Holocaust, I think it does, actually.

You very clearly operate without logic or shame.

Likewise.

Very relieved to see most of the voters on this thread can see sense, and are not bending themselves into pretzels to uncritically adopt the illogical left wing position.

@Wildflowers99 They are voting with regard to your original post I suspect not your demented ramblings afterwards which show you clearly support the annihilation of Palestine and genocide but refuse to confirm it.

That's an appalling outlook. Because something awful happened to one group of people, no other group can ever claim that it happens/is happening/could ever happen again? And you accused others of a lack of critical thinking?

I voted you are being unreasonable. Not because I am a Hamas supporter, but because I think your post is simplistic and misinformed. I am not left wing and I do not read the Guardian…

It’s not appalling. I think the Holocaust justified the creation of a state for Jewish people. There are 50 Muslim majority countries in the world, and 1 Jewish country, and even then we want to make it wildly unsafe for them by wrangling over a tiny amount of land which is populated by people who carried out October 7th?

Conquests and land grabs have happened the world over since the dawn of time, the majority of Muslim countries were seized through conquest. Although that’s always ignored in the context of this argument.

I don’t assume people who disagree with me are Hamas supporters. I haven’t accused anybody of it either (although I’ve been accused of plenty).

@Wildflowers99
Do you support a two state solution?