Why do you support Palestine?

[Wildflowers99]

After the horrific kidnapping of the Bibas family and the horrific murder of the mother and her two small children, the time has come to ask British supporters of Palestine why.

A significant number of Palestinians want Sharia law. This is not a conflict of politics to them - it’s a conflict of religion. Therefore, it’s simply a case of Islam must dominate no matter what. 4 in 10 support the attacks in October 2023, which was the mass rape, torture and murder of Israelis using the most psychopathic methods imaginable - not to mention the kidnappings.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/11/amid-the-ceasefire-wrangling-how-popular-is-hamas-in-gaza-now

While I am devastated by the killing of Gazan children in air strikes, and have always supported a ceasefire, I cannot support any advancing of the Palestinian state because I do not want to further a state with views such as those above.

So, please can I ask why you support Palestine as a state? I find it painful watching people blindly marching and demanding support for a state who are opposed to everything they stand for.

The persecution of the Jewish people (through the centuries) and the holocaust happened in Europe at the hands of Christians @Wildflowers99 . So why is it the price for a Jewish state (I do agree the need for one) had to be paid by Palestinians and Muslims?

Very hard to say, I’m not going to pretend I have a brilliant answer because I don’t.

To me, a two state solution can only work if Gaza managed some kind of iron clad assurance that it wouldn’t become a hotbed of antisemitic terror (and a threat to the West in general). I think it’s almost impossible for them to give this assurance, as the attack they launched was so depraved and underhand that their word means absolutely nothing.

Which leaves only the option of Gaza continuing to exist but in a heavily policed fashion, to ensure it does not carry out any more attacks. I’m not sure how realistic this is in the long term, as I don’t think they will ever accept Israel existing.

I would be interested in a realistic discussion, not an airy fairy dream about Gaza existing as a democratic liberal state with elections etc

Do Gazans & Israelis support a two state solution? It's really not important what 'westerners' support is it?

Quite a lot of peaceniks in Israel, fewer since 7/10 but still a considerable number.

Go away , read some history books and come back better informed.

Because Israel is their ancestral and religious home. Muslims have Mecca and 50 countries.

If it was simply a case of Islam that creates all that evil because according to you it sounds as if Islam is inherently against Jews then how do you explain Ottomans helping Jews during the Crusades by providing a place of refuge and safety for Jewish communities fleeing persecution. How do you explain Ottoman Empire with its sharia law having a policy of tolerance towards religious minorities, allowing Jews to live and practice their faith without the same level of threat they faced in Europe? How do you explain the influx of Jewish populations into Ottoman territories during and after the Crusades?

What about the attacks that are carried out by settlers in the West Bank. Should that also be heavily policed by Palestinians so that the settlers cannot continue to do this?

Your answer implies that the violence and desire to eradicate the other is only one way when we have heard politicans such as Smotrich call for Palestinians to be exiled. The charter of the Likud Party includes the phrase from 'the Jordan to the sea".

It is easy to say Israel need security but so does Palestine because both sides have come under attack from the other

Poland and Germany and Spain and France and oh, most of Europe, are also the home of the Jews @Wildflowers99 . They lived there for generations, contributing to the economy and culture. They didn't just arrive there in 1930.

So again, why were Palestinians elected to give up their land. They didn't have 50 homelands any more than your average English person or German does. They had 1.

This is so unbearably unrelated to anything we are discussing here I’m not even going to answer

How is it unrelated when you claim the root of the problem is Islam and sharia law?

Because Israel is home to Jerusalem.

Because you’re referring to long extinguished events from over 100 years ago to ‘prove Sharia isn’t an issue’ when global events have massively changed since then and every Sharia country that exists now has a lot of issues.

Or both?

Yep. History is relevant only when it seems to back up the OP's argument.

No because Jews exist today and deserve a homeland.

Do point to a western country that instigates public floggings, forbids women from speaking and enforces religious teaching? I’ll be waiting a while, I suspect.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves I’m still waiting to hear about your Sharia country that is liberal, tolerant and has fair elections? I’ve answered your question, will you answer mine?

You’re the one advocating for the creation of a far right state, I don’t think you can mud sling really.

I don't think you get peace without a two state solution. The people of Palestine won't be satisfied without it, and why should they be? They have been systematically oppressed, had their people displaced, land unlawfully grabbed and now they have been killed indiscriminately in their tens of thousands. They have had aid obstructed, water turned off, cities flattened etc.

I don't like sharia law, I wouldn't visit a country that had it, but I would rather the little girls of Gaza live in a country ruled by sharia law than not live at all.

You haven't answered my question at all. You still haven't offered any solutions - you basically said that you would leave the Palestinians to their current fate, which isn't a solution at all.

As for a liberal, tolerant sharia country - I don't have any suggestions to offer. Some are better than others, but sharia law tends to exist in parts of the world that aren't generally known for their liberalism and tolerance, but that often applies equally to their neighbouring countries with no connection to Islam, so I'm not convinced that Islam itself is the problem.

Radical Islam is real and I think they're dangerous, but to be honest, I feel much the same way about the far right evangeligal Christians in the US. But there is a diversity of views in Islam just as there is in Christianity and any other religion. "Sharia law" means different things to different people. And while you might have appointed yourself as the official spokesperson for what Palestinians want and believe, I simply don't accept your presumption that you know exactly what kind of state they would create.

You don't seem to have anything useful or constructive to offer in this thread. It seems that the only point of it is for you to keep telling us how awful Islam is?

We have been over this, and I have made it abundantly clear that I'm not. Please stop deliberately misrepresenting what I say. It's a pretty desperate tactic which people only usually resort to when they realise that they're losing the argument.

You are in favour of a self governed Palestinian state.

That would be a Sharia state.

Ive asked for an example, any example, of a Sharia state that isn’t right wing theocracy.

You have failed to provide that example as there isn’t one.

Is any of the above wrong?

Radical Islam is real and I think they're dangerous, but to be honest, I feel much the same way about the far right evangeligal Christians in the US

How many people live under, are oppressed by, or have been killed by radical Islam versus evangelical Christianity in the last 50 years?

The left wing pushing for Sharia states are like turkeys voting for Christmas. I’m convinced the only reason they do it is because they know they’ll never have any personal contact with the Sharia state they’re supporting. They’re safe, thank you very much, in their tolerant left leaning societies while luxuriating in their ‘progressive’ beliefs safe in the knowledge it’s other people that will suffer as a result. It’s quite despicable to me, and mind bogglingly disingenuous.

Yes, there is so much wrong with the above, but you either can't or won't see it.

For the last time, I believe that Palestinians, like the rest of us, should have the opportunity to govern themselves.

You saying that this would inevitably lead to a hardline Islamic state doesn't actually make it so. Neither you nor I know what would actually happen.

You might think you know exactly how things would turn out, but that says more about you than it does about any kind of reality.