Do people fully support Palestine?

[Dawk]

I read this article and the scales fell from my eyes a bit: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/11/amid-the-ceasefire-wrangling-how-popular-is-hamas-in-gaza-now

I hadn’t realised that a majority of Gazans want a conservative Islamist state and the complete destruction of Israel to create an Islamic state covering the whole country (from the river to the sea I guess). They also support violence and even the sacrifice of their own lives.

I am appalled by the destruction and loss of life in Gaza, but having read this article I can’t understand why support for Palestine isn’t more caveated. Why are people waving flags and supporting Gaza so unconditionally? When you look at the polling described in the article it seems fairly clear that many/most don’t actually want peace unless it follows the complete destruction of Israel.

For me it’s a bit like supporting Iran. I would never wave the Iranian flag around because of what the country stands for. In this case I am horrified by the scale of destruction wrought by the IDF so support Palestine completely in that respect but I’d never wave the flag or chant the slogans.

If you consider yourself ‘pro-Palestine’, what do you think of the ideology described in the article?

The usual suggestion is the '67 borders. Land swaps would need to be used to create clearer boundaries.

Can’t see any placards condemning Hamas or mentioning the hostages in that picture? I still think these protests , in general, show no willingness to acknowledge the role of Hamas . And I find that astonishing

@BaMamma what are we even arguing about so. Have you seen anyone on this thread arguing for the depopulation of Israel?

The purpose of the protests is to stop the UK support of Israeli’s actions in Gaza. Hamas are 30,000 terrorist fighters, initially supported by the Israeli government itself. They are not a recognised government, they are not signed up to any treaties or agreements. Their actions will not be influenced by a protest in the UK. The protests should be aimed at the UK government.

Reports alternate between tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands at today’s protest. It’s odd you seem inclined to be pessimistic, the earlier photos show mass produced placards that clearly say Hamas are terrorists within the proPalestine protest, another photo seems to be showing mostly the stop arming Israel mass produced placards of a plane dropping bombs…

If you take them together, there is both a willingness to condemn Hamas and a push to stop selling arms, and bring peace to the region. It’s not an either or.

@SharonEllis I can say that Hamas is wrong but can you admit that the IDF and the Israeli government also committed war crimes? Or do you think only Hamas should be held accountable for its actions? Criticising Israel is not the same as being antisemitic. It’s very obvious that there are illegal settlements in Israel. It’s also very obvious when the IDF destroy olive trees, that it’s not linked to Hamas. So what’s the justification of that? What was the justification for what happened to WCK? I don’t think it’s antisemitic to say Israel has acted immorally.

Besides, it’s common sense that if you go to rally and if you hear Islamaphobic chants, will you then say that they are all Islamaphobic or a select few bad apples? So isn’t that the same thing here? If you compare the borders of Palestinian territories after 1946 up to the last decade, you can see that there have been significant changes so clearly obvious that innocent Palestinians have lost their homes and cannot return. Many have become refugees and are in poverty. Is that only Hamas’ fault? Is it solely Hamas’ responsibility? Was only Hamas behaving immorally?

wrong thread, sorry

@Adropinthepond Who is being racist? I haven’t read every single post. If it’s so outright and blatant, please do point it out instead of being very vague about it. Then perhaps more posters can report it?

@BaMamma I just saw this post. I’m not sure what you mean by “land grab” or “greedily ‘occupying’ more than their ‘fair share’”. Which poster said/wrote that? Are you saying that illegal settlements are actually legal?

Adropinthepond · Wrote
The outright, blatant racism on this thread is sick.

I'm presuming that you are not a teenager and that you are therefore criticising rather than admiring the racism that is allegedly present on this thread.

More propaganda is everywhere. Most people want peace, but the crux of the issue is that European immigration has massively changed this region, essentially people's lands have been stolen leading to the current issues. Really the zionists are in the wrong, not the Palestinian arabs.

@BaMamma So who controls either side of tje the borders? And what happened to the ‘47 borders that were part of the UN plan? Besides, I thought Bibi Netanyahu rejected the ‘67 borders?

Immigration stats show a more complex picture.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-immigration-to-israel-by-country-of-origin

@LetThereBeLove I think by conflating a strong dislike of Israel’s actions with the hatred of Jews is antisemitic. Implying that being critical of Israel is the same as the hatred of Judaism is deeply abhorrent and minimises victims of actual antisemitism. I don’t think that the government of Israel or the IDF’s actions are representative of every Jews. Just as I don’t believe that the actions of Hamas are representative of every Muslim’s belief or the beliefs of the innocent Palestinians for that matter. I do, however, believe that a Nazi salute is antisemitic and I don’t care that it’s done by Elon or a random person at a rally. But this does not excuse Israel from being held accountable because the last I checked it was supposed to be a sovereign state.

Indeed, and of course there are also Palestinians of quite recent European heritage (as well as from neighbouring areas of course).

It's a region that saw huge amounts of immigration in the few decades before the creation of the modern Israeli state. Both Palestinians and Israeli Jews have complex demographic histories.

Oh look! Neturei Karta. Noone's wheeled them out for a while. Maybe read up on why they are antizionist and how many of them there are.

This just doesnt wash. The judaism yes/zionism no and river to see chants are ubiquitous at rallies as are the pro hamas posters. There hasnt been particularly heavy handed policing at protests as evidenced in the light arrest rate, and there has been heavy handed policing at counter protests. Just a few weeks ago someone was told to remove a 'fuck hamas' sticker. All the evidence is out there if you choose to look. There may well be 'islamaphobes' at pro-Israel rallies the difference is its not the mood of the march. Its not intrinsic to the chanting and the posters. Ive been to a few. The mood is dignified and focussed on the release of hostages. The speeches call for peace for all and protection of civilians.

Again you just throw random stuff at me that you want to talk about. Not an actual reply to the conversation, so I'm out.

Was about to write the same.

Just a few more from yesterday's march of gentle peace loving protestors.
The man in the hotdog costume is part of a large crowd shouting 'if you hate zionism clap your hands' and 'free the sausages', which is a reference to Starmer's slip when he said sausages not hostages. The hot dog costume must have been pre-planned for this charming carnival of hatred. I think the others are self explanatory.

Oooo someone else who has learnt all their historical knowledge from a meme on social media by the sounds of it.

So simplistic, so naive...your post actually made me laugh

Can you explain what you think the placard which said 'Zionism out of the NHS' means then?

No, its not the crux of the matter. The crux of the matter is that the Jewish people were exiled from that region, have been persecuted in the diaspora and have had their right to self determination in Israel continually contested When you say the 'zionists' are wrong are you saying you dont think Israel should exist?

I assume it was referring to this

www.theguardian.com/society/2025/feb/09/nhs-staff-barred-from-workplace-for-considering-palestine-demonstration

There's no indication that that is what he is referring to, but do you think he could and should have come up with a non antisemitic way of expressing his view?