Do people fully support Palestine?

[Dawk]

I read this article and the scales fell from my eyes a bit: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/11/amid-the-ceasefire-wrangling-how-popular-is-hamas-in-gaza-now

I hadn’t realised that a majority of Gazans want a conservative Islamist state and the complete destruction of Israel to create an Islamic state covering the whole country (from the river to the sea I guess). They also support violence and even the sacrifice of their own lives.

I am appalled by the destruction and loss of life in Gaza, but having read this article I can’t understand why support for Palestine isn’t more caveated. Why are people waving flags and supporting Gaza so unconditionally? When you look at the polling described in the article it seems fairly clear that many/most don’t actually want peace unless it follows the complete destruction of Israel.

For me it’s a bit like supporting Iran. I would never wave the Iranian flag around because of what the country stands for. In this case I am horrified by the scale of destruction wrought by the IDF so support Palestine completely in that respect but I’d never wave the flag or chant the slogans.

If you consider yourself ‘pro-Palestine’, what do you think of the ideology described in the article?

OP I read this article today and found it more balanced than the usual Guardian reporting on Israel/Gaza. Some of us have been saying that the destruction of Israel is, and has been,
the main objective of Hamas and their followers (including the Palestinian Solidarity Campaign and their constant flag waving marches) all along. Nothing has happened to change my own view of that and the report bears this out.

I'm astonished to discover that people supporting 'Free Palestine' do not realize that Hamas is supported by Iran. Had an illuminating conversation recently with someone who was furious about Netanyahu's previous support of Hamas, but had no clue that Iran was their major funder.

You are right.
Because people don't think critically. They see loss of life and destruction which is obviously devastating and they want to support its resolution. They don't consider what this resolution means and what the people being destroyed want as a solution.

They see it as similar to the oppression of Ukraine by Russia and it's not the same thing at all.

I'm not a supporter, and I'm happy to stand by that. I've got friends who have cut people off for not supporting, more fool them. I'm not on the wrong side of history here.

I also see a strong linkage between the harder left and pro Palestinian views.

The harder left has historically viewed events through a prism of the oppressor and the oppressed. Even as far back as Marx there was the bourgeois and the proletariat. There can be no situation where everyone benefits- for every winner there must be a loser.

For example if the economy grew so that every worker was better off by 10% in real terms then in the prism of the hard left the lowest paid are still the victims because in absolute terms they have benefited less than the highest paid.

The same view point can be seen in world events so that regardless of the atrocities caused by Hamas on October 7th, their sympathies still lie with Hamas because they are the little guys fighting the big guys (Israel) and the weaker side must always be in the right even if they have committed terrorist atrocities

This also manifests itself in self hate for the West because the Western economies are stronger so therefore they must be oppressors of poorer countries etc etc.

'while slightly more than half preferred a dissolution of Israel, with a single Palestinian state under Islamic law the most preferred solution of all. The least preferred was a single democratic state with equal rights for Arabs and Jews.

The survey also showed that a significant proportion feel that rule by Islamic law – a key part of the ideology of Hamas – is important and that around half believe that a military solution is more likely than a diplomatic solution. For most in Gaza too, the Palestinian-Israel conflict is primarily religious rather than political, the survey suggested.'

Of course it's a religious war!! Radical Islamists want to destroy the one Jewish state in the world and it's not about real estate, it's about Islam vs Judaism.

Indeed some people in the west who have benefited from education, healthcare, freedom, equality in the west cheer on oppressive states elsewhere. Imagine living under Islamic law 😳

Most of us knew that already. It's about wiping out Jewish people, always has been.

And yet there is so much rhetoric around the idea that Israel is involved in a 'land grab', greedily 'occupying' more than their 'fair share,' whatever that is.

I would say I was "pro-Palestinian" in the fact that I support a two-state solution. Any two-state solution would need the Palestinian people and leadership to accept the existence of Israel and its borders. And also Israel would need to respect Palestinian borders - which raises the thorny question of what to do with around a million settlers. Both sides would be required to have massive changes in mindset and leadership to make this possible but I see this as the only possible solution. There have been times in history when a two-state solution was much more likely, and both sides were responsible for derailing this - many Israelis don't want to see a Palestinian state.

I’m not sure it’s surprising that Palestinians may have adopted more extremist views given all they’ve been through and witnessed recently? I think more interesting would be to see how views have changed over time.

I'm not sure there's ever been a time when Palestinian nationalists did not exist in opposition to the very idea of Israel. I'd love to know if there was.

@BaMamma I’m sure the reverse is true too, that there have always been Jewish people who find Palestine inconvenient and wish it didn’t exist. That wasn’t the point I was making.

The point is, traumatic events, such as October 7, such as the devastation in Gaza, tend to create or exacerbate extremist viewpoints.

If I had seen my child, or mother, killed in front of me, regardless of the side I was on, I’d be pretty fucking angry.

Then perhaps their leaders, Hamas, shouldn't start wars they can't win.

Of course, the people will only be hearing Hamas's views of the situation, so you can't expect them to think critically about their plight.

I think if I saw that my leaders were able to fully feed themselves, and keep their uniforms nice and clean, I'd be fucking angry about the conditions they were keeping me in.

@BaMamma They also have their lived experience. Israel has been ignoring international resolutions and mistreating Palestinians for decades. It’s very well documented. That has undoubtedly contributed to the situation we are now in. It didn’t happen in a vacuum.

Their 'lived experience' is driven by the Hamas goal of destroying Israel, do you not see that?

Perhaps but the two are not comparable. It’s ridiculous to suggest they are.

Religious belief comes 1st to those who think their leader will return when they've killed all Jews. It comes 1st in every conceivable way and anyone killed is a martyr to the cause. There is no compromise and no way of peacefully moving forwards, the conflict will continue albeit at a localised level.

@BaMamma Hamas only came to power in 2007. Israel has been occupying Gaza and the West Bank since 1967. Which came first?

We're told the people of Gaza are literally starving to death, but we see their leaders are fat and well dressed, and you don't think that's an issue?

Hamas are just the latest in a long line.

Tell me, who was in control of Gaza and the West Bank before 1967?

No, I think it’s deflection.

I find it astonishing that people wave Palestine flags in this country. This conflict has lasted longer than most of us have even been alive. It’s complicated. If the answer was easy, it would have been actioned. It’s an impossible situation with very significant wrongdoing on both sides and very significant human suffering on both sides. I don’t know what the answer does and I can’t see anyone in the world who knows what the answer is. So I find it strange when I see people posting or waving pro Palestine flags as though it is a simple situation.

Of course you do.