Do people fully support Palestine?

[Dawk]

I read this article and the scales fell from my eyes a bit: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/11/amid-the-ceasefire-wrangling-how-popular-is-hamas-in-gaza-now

I hadn’t realised that a majority of Gazans want a conservative Islamist state and the complete destruction of Israel to create an Islamic state covering the whole country (from the river to the sea I guess). They also support violence and even the sacrifice of their own lives.

I am appalled by the destruction and loss of life in Gaza, but having read this article I can’t understand why support for Palestine isn’t more caveated. Why are people waving flags and supporting Gaza so unconditionally? When you look at the polling described in the article it seems fairly clear that many/most don’t actually want peace unless it follows the complete destruction of Israel.

For me it’s a bit like supporting Iran. I would never wave the Iranian flag around because of what the country stands for. In this case I am horrified by the scale of destruction wrought by the IDF so support Palestine completely in that respect but I’d never wave the flag or chant the slogans.

If you consider yourself ‘pro-Palestine’, what do you think of the ideology described in the article?

@BaMamma To say Zionist ideology is the same as Judaism is antisemitic. There are many Jews who oppose Israel’s actions and some sects of Judaism believe that Israel shouldn’t exist so let’s not make a complex conflict into a religious war against Jews and Muslims because that’s very simplistic and quite frankly not only antisemitic, but also Islamaphobic.

@SharonEllis I’m not sure if you’re talking about Palestinian civilians or Israeli settlers? Not all Israeli citizens support their government’s actions. How about a time when young people are not indoctrinated and forced into mandatory military service?

@MushMonster Some people can argue in favour of proportionality and the right to self-determination. You only have to look at the recent satellite footage of Palestine to see the damage caused by the Israeli government. Trump actually wants to build a resort in Gaza so I’m not surprised that he agrees with Israel’s genocidal actions. The right to self-defense does not mean pro-Hamas. I can believe that innocent people have the right to defend their homes without agreeing with Hamas. I can believe that Israeli bombing of hospitals and IDF destroying olive trees is nonsensical without agreeing with Hamas. It goes beyond pro-civilian. When I say “Free Palestine”, I believe It’s about peaceful coexistence with equal rights and the end of an apartheid.

@ExitPursuedByAPolarBear both your posts seem confused. I suggest you read what people are actually saying.

@SharonEllis You are adamant that antisemitism ruins lives and I agree with you. But I also believe Islamaphobia ruins lives. I have Jewish friends who have been called self-hating Jews just because they disagree with the Zionist ideology. Conflating disagreeing with Israeli propaganda, pointing out the IDF’s immoral and unjust actions as antisemitism makes it difficult for those who are actually suffering from antisemitism. Don’t you see that?

It’s not just Hamas that needs to be held accountable for any possible war crimes, it should be Israel as well. Is that not a possibility for you to consider? Why should only Hamas be criticised and held accountable and not the IDF? What gives Israel the right to destroy greenery in Palestine, take over food sources, destroy and block fuel, aid etc. and then when it’s rightfully criticised, is this antisemitic?

@SharonEllis Confused about what exactly? And what are people saying?

You are arguing with straw men. If you want to know what people are saying read what they have written.

What part of @ExitPursuedByAPolarBear s posts are you finding confusing @SharonEllis ?

How about a time when young people are not indoctrinated and forced into mandatory military service?

Hamas indoctrination shows young children dressed in fatigues and holding weapons. Their school books preach hatred of Jews (not just Israelis).

Your comment does not follow the conversation I was having with a pp. Why wouldn't I agree that Islamaphobia ruins lives? But we werent talking about Islamaphobia, we were talking about antisemitism. Im not going over yet AGAIN the difference between antisemitic criticism of Israel and criticism that is not antisemitic.

I think all Israelis are looking forward to the time when they dont need manadatory military service to defend themselves from attack. Again, showing how real the threat is. And while Muslim Israelis are NOT conscripted its worth noting that many join up voluntarily in the shared endeavour of defending their nation alongside Christians, Druze, Bedouin and Jewish Israelis.

I do not think insisting of a picture presenting the Pro-Palestine marches as anti-semitic is correct. They are, mostly, people who are pro the two state solution, as I am. They do want to see and end to this. They think about peace for all the civilians. That is my view of them.
There were anti-semitic and Hamas individuals amongst them and in other protests. There have been arrests as this is illegal in UK.
I would not want an israeli who has never been in UK, reading these boards, to think that there is a large amount of UK citizens who dislike or hate them and their religion and culture. Because that is not the case.

Now, I am asked to offer a solution. Well, none of you have. Please, offer yours too?

But my solution is:
See this ceasefire through, to get the hostages back and start settling civilians in Gaza in liveable conditions
Ceasefire to remain. No more war.
Hezbollah to dissolve- Lebanon to have its own army and full control. No militias or other armed groups.
Hamas- in jail. The political party to dissapear
Netanyahu and his cabinet- in jail
The Likud party and other far far far right in Israel- to disappear
Both Palestine and Israel to find real trustworthy leaders to sit on the table, find agreement and implement agreement.
Not the West, not Qatar, not US. Israel and Palestine, talking together.
I have not asked Israel to be kind, have I?
I think they need to have a deep thought about the future they want. I think BN and party are not a suitable future. The Palestinians need to have that deep thouggt too.

As it is, in part due to the type of loop thought you display, that stops things before they start.
Much if it may not be achieved. Hamas may get away with it and not make it to jail. But if they are taken off power, that is something indeed. I would say that it willl be the Palestinians who chuck them out. For that, they need to have an option of representation. Right now, they are oppressed by Hamas, Israel IDF and it could be Trump, on top of that. They need a leader that can negotiate for them. Not groups that kill them or give a damn shit about what happens to them.
Israel may vote BN out and vote for a moderate leader who is willing to negotiate the two state.. BN may not make it to jail.
There is a long list of people who need to make it to jail. But so many times they get away with it, as such is the price of peace.

Right now, we are getting Hamas-Likud BN-Trump solution.
The worst possible, because it will be just carrying on with the same. Possibly, escalating it.

I think you can rest assured than an Israeli visiting the UK will listen to their community here and the CST when assessing the level of antisemitism in the UK. But its been very instructive to see the thought process of someone denying the experience of a minority in tbe UK.

I think it’s quite surprising how determinedly insular you seem to want all Israelis to be. No hurt will come from listening to those outside your community or with different experiences.

😂 what a completely bizarre comment. Neither you nor I can tell Israelis what to do and I dont 'want' them to BE anything, except whatever they want to be. I do think they are likely to find other Jews (or whatever community they are) a better source of information on prejudice in the UK than someone from a different community who seems absolutely determined not to recognise well-evidenced prejudice.

And listening to someone who didn't even know that Jewish organisations have routine security, and therefore doesn't understand the extent and nature of hatred of Jewish people, does rather suggest that harm can come to people who listen to people who dont know how and dont have the information to assess risk.

I don’t think it “suggests” that at all but I think your posts, so intent on shaming those who don’t have your experience, do little to spread understanding or encourage interest or empathy from others. The world is poorer for these types of attitudes

Of course it does. If you dont realise Jewish organisations and events need security, then you don't understand the level of threat. If you dont understand the level of threat then you could give very poor advice to a Jewish person. Tjat cause 'hurt' in your words.

I'm not Jewish. I only know these things because over many years I have educated myself, done research, been alert and listened to Jewish people I've met and worked with. I and others tried to share information but we were met with dismissal and stubborness. Noone blames someone for not knowing something. But to refuse to change a very strong opinion in the light of new information - that's something else.

Maybe an opinion based on the personal experience of an IDF soldier would do?
It is 7 years ago. He is Israeli and Jewish.
Breaking the Silence testimonies, that I found rather moving.
Links do not seem to be allowed (presumably after the major incidents a few days back), but hopefully a screenshot of the youtube link will be allowed.
Othereise, you can write in youtube search: Israeli Soldier's explosive Tell-All: "Palestinians are right to resist"
He talks about his military experience in the IDF, how he was told to do things he does not agree with and he left.

@SharonEllis but how are you receiving any new information so you can adjust your views (if necessary) if you only speak or listen to people from one very small section of society?

Of course only listening or speaking to a small section of society is not a good idea. Im not sure who you are saying is doing that?

Some examples of antisemitism on today's anti-Israel march. In addition to chanting Judaism yes, zionism no' this man was chanting 'zionism will be gone' Go to Campaign Against antisemitism for the footage.
A poster calling for the dissolution of Israel and justifying both Hamas and Hezbollah as justified resistance.
I couldnt catch the screenshot but the man in the cap gave a nazi salute to a group of Jews counter protesting.
A poster calling for 'zionism out of the NHS'.

Much more footage and images in a similar vein, from today's march alone, online.

Disgusting.

As for the chant... Judaism, yes... imagine having the audacity to think we need their permission...

And I'm not falling for it anyway

That gets me too, every time. They are so smug, thinking we won't get their antisemitism because they have kindly given Jews permission to exist. But not in Israel. And its a very common chant it seems.