Gaza death toll rises to close to 62000 as missing added

[Lalaloveya]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/2/3/gaza-death-toll-rises-close-to-62000-as-missing-added

The new death toll includes 17,881 children, including 214 newborn infants.

At least 1,155 medical personnel, 205 journalists and 194 civil defence workers are reported to have been killed.

More than 2million people have been displaced and 111,588 people injured.

Who then? Who here has said the death till is 'ok'?

Indeed.

It could have been totally avoided if Hamas and their supporters hadn't spent 2 years plotting to rape, torture, murder and kidnap in their huge terrorist event on 7th October. I say event because they clearly celebrated as if it was an important event to them.

I mean seriously apart from planning to use the hostages to obtain release of terrorist buddies (Sinwar himself was released in a previous hostage release agreement). Did they expect Israel to just sit back and let them be and not declare war on them. The result was far too many people killed. It could have ended by a surrender but again they chose not to.

Hamas had choices from the initial terrorist event, right through, but they sat happily waiting and now with clean uniforms and fat bellies parade their 'spoils' as they exchange them for detainees (many who wouldn't have been detained if oct 7th didn't occur) along with long serving prisoners).

People that have not been able to condemn it, people that have considered it justifiable because of what Hamas did and people that feel it is all part and parcel of war. It is a comment about society in general because if the majority of people and those in positions of influence thought it wasn't ok or justifiable something would have been done long before it got to 17,000 to try and stop it.

This kind of demonstrates my point tbh

Martin Oliner who is an appointed member of the United States Holocaust Memorial Council (the irony of this) said Palestinians are 'fundamentally evil' and not worthy of 'any mercy' just three days ago.
He didn't mince his words and there are many posts on this and other threads that allude to this too and If they didn't think it would be deleted would also just say it outright.

Everyone here is condemning it. They're condemning either Hamas or Israel first depending on their viewpoint.

Not a single person here has said it's ok.

You're arguing with a straw man you've set up for yourself.

The only people I've actually heard say it's ok for women and children to die is Hamas themselves.

But for some unknown reason many here would rather blame Israel than Hamas.

I don't understand it.

Yes, Hamas had many choices but chose to not help their own people.

Israel had no choice but declare war on hamas.

No winners in war. Will hamas reform and repeat. I'd given the opportunity they would do tge same again. They hate Jewish people more than they want to improve the lives and conditions of their own friends and family.

Can't help you if you don't understand. My point is clear, 17,000 children dead is either not ok or justifiable

Have you read what actual members of the Israeli government have been saying about Palestinians? "Human animals?"

What will it take for you to say enough? What's your red line on the amount of dead babies and children?

And here is an (ex) cabinet member saying out loud what we all know about hostage deals

www.timesofisrael.com/ben-gvir-says-he-repeatedly-foiled-hostage-deals-urges-smotrich-to-help-him-stop-this-one/amp/

Indeed.

Really? What in this person's post do you disagree with?

Do you dispute that the war could have been avoided if Hamas and their supporters hadn't orchrstrated the huge terrorist event on 7th October? Do you dispute thst they & their supporters celebrated it even though there is rxtensive evidence of it?

Do you dispute that Hamas planned to use the hostages to obtain release of terrorist buddies (Sinwar himself was released in a previous hostage release agreement). I mean why do you think they took hostages?

Did you expect Israel to just sit back and let them be and not declare war on them? If so why would you hold Israel to a different standard to any country on earth?

@Atangledweb said 'The result was far too many people killed.' I dont think anyone disputes this.

Do you disagree that the war could have ended by a surrender but again Hamas chose not to?

I don't believe you disagree with any of this so what point does it illustrate?

It's interesting that people won't admit that the conflict with the loss of thousands of lives would not have happened if Hamas didn't plan and carry out their terrorist attack. Strange.

It's as if hamas had nothing to do with it at all.... it all just "happened". Those dreadful Israeli people just did it and it would have happened anyway. Strange.

Fact 1 The conflict would not have occurred if hamas didn't carry out its terrorist attack.

Fact 2 thousands would not have died if they didn't carry out their long planned attack.

Quite simple really.

And you never will unfortunately

Absolutely this 100%.

Your reply says it all. Apparent prejudice and hatred for the State of Israel overrides any morality; Hamas is excused for its role in all of this.

Stop putting words in my mouth. My comment was in reference to 17,000 innocent children killed. The IDF are responsible for that. I of course expected a response from Israel but I never expected it to amount to the slaughter of so many innocent children. I am obviously very naïve

Have you read what Hamas leaders have been saying about Israel; 'we must teach Israel a lesson, and we will do it again and again; everything we do is justified'

What will it take for you to say enough is enough? What's your red line on the amount of dead Israeli women, men, children and babies?

Khaled Mashal, one of its political leaders, said, “We know very well the consequences of our operation on October 7 . . . No nation is liberated without sacrifices.” Ghazi Hamad, a senior Hamas member (two weeks after the attacks), said, “We are called a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.”

It is not a one-sided orchestrated campaign of hate by Israel.

If you don't believe me, watch this interview with Ghazi Hamad from LBC TV (Lebanon) from the 24th of October 2023;

https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-official-ghazi-hamad-we-will-repeat-october-seven-until-israel-annihilated-victims-everything-we-do-justified

Please show me where I showed any prejudice or hatred for the State of Israel, or excused Hamas in its role in all of this? You're clutching at the last few straws you have left

Where did I put words in your mouth? My post was a series of questions to you which is precisely not putting words into your mouth but giving you an opportunity to use your own words.

It was in response go your post which said that the post I quoted throughout illustrated yout point.

Its terribly, terribly easy to say its bad to kill people. We can all do that. 'Its bad to kill people'. What is hard is to work out how to deal with an enemy like Hamas that doesnt think its bad to brutalise & kill its own people, or take other people hostage. Thats the hard part..

Well said!

“Its terribly, terribly easy to say its bad to kill people. We can all do that. 'Its bad to kill people'. What is hard is to work out how to deal with an enemy like Hamas that doesnt think its bad to brutalise & kill its own people, or take other people hostage. Thats the hard part”

This is so true.

This. No other country would accept what Hamas has been doing.

I have asked on other threads what exactly do people who berate Israel think they should have done after 7th October? The war was begun by Hamas, who don't care one jot how many people die, whether Jews (and not just Israeli Jews) or Palestinians. Their raison d'etre is to kill Jews.

And I have answered this many times as have others but people don't like to listen to the answers that they don't agree with.

It's the same people who were saying months ago when many people were calling for a ceasefire, that you can't negotiate with terrorists. Who are now still probably struggling to understand that the ceasefire deal that has been negotiated now was on the table months ago. That negotiations did take place and they had to happen.

And many lives of both Israeli and Palestinians would have been saved if they had happened months ago.