Gaza death toll rises to close to 62000 as missing added

[Lalaloveya]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/2/3/gaza-death-toll-rises-close-to-62000-as-missing-added

The new death toll includes 17,881 children, including 214 newborn infants.

At least 1,155 medical personnel, 205 journalists and 194 civil defence workers are reported to have been killed.

More than 2million people have been displaced and 111,588 people injured.

What was your answer? I must have missed it.

You know collective punishment is a war crime, right? Evil people doing evil things doesn't make innocent people responsible just because they're the same ethnicity. That's what rational people call racism.

I'm not going to bother saying my thoughts all over again when I know they will be dismissed. What I will say was a major major flaw in the Israeli approach was no plan for the day after and unattainable goals such as fully destroying Hamas and achieving total victory.

Netanyahu knew after the October 7th that he would have the majority support of the Isralo public to unleash hell in Gaza. The Israeli society were and probably still are severely traumatised (which I can't blame them for) and it is my opinion he took advantage of that.

The Palestinians were faced between Hamas who were claiming to defend them and Israel who they only saw as raining down bombs on them at an unprecedented scale, never seen before in this decades long conflict. It was a recipe for disaster that would only prolong the suffering on both sides and would lead to a somewhat perpetual state of war (which would suit Netanyahu's political aspirations)

And many, many civilian lives wouldn't have been lost at all had Hamas not planned and carried out the atrocities of 7 October.

Let's not forget that the atrocities committed that day were aimed at civilians. At a party. In peacetime. Families in their homes. Civilians were the actual targets.

Why is it so hard to admit it's Hamas' fault?

Would Israel just have started intensive bombing campaigns for shits and giggles? Do any of you actually believe that?

The utterly wasteful death of so many Palestinians lies firstly with Hamas.

Did I think Israel would retaliate? Yes, ofcourse.

Did anyone think Israel would retaliate in a way that experts around the world would call it a genocide? Probably not.

There were many other options. Israel had 100% support of the powerful Western governments in the immediate aftermath of Oct 7th and I think, they too are to blame for what happened after and not steering the war in a direction that would not lead to what we have today. With Trump in power now, I think it's only going to get worst.

I am not here to be interrogated. My point was clear. I don't accept there is any justification for the slaughter of 17,000 children a number that is likely to rise more. Others do fine. I don't. Their deaths and future have been in vain anyway Hamas are still there bolder than ever. It is a complete disaster.

Its terribly, terribly easy to say its bad to kill people. We can all do that. 'Its bad to kill people'. What is hard is to work out how to deal with an enemy like Hamas that doesnt think its bad to brutalise & kill its own people, or take other people hostage. Thats the hard part..

No one said it was easy but 17,000 children dead for what? Is Israel any safer? are Hamas gone?
Any democratic modern nation that kills that amount of children in 14 months should have to answer for that, it should never be accepted as justifiable collateral.

You did ask for examples;

Liv999
'Israel doesn't give one fuck about Gaza'

'What happened for the next 15 months was the responsibility of the IDF and the Israeli Government, simple'

'Every one of those people were murdered by the IDF'

IDF could do ANYTHING, shoot ANYONE and the same people will pop up on here and say it’s fake news…. No wonder they’ve got away with a genocide
You agreed with that statement 💯

These are just a few examples of what you say and endorse about Israel every week.

Have I misunderstood, I think not.

How exactly do you 'steer' a war against terrorists who maintain that they will carry out further atrocities like 7 October? There is no response other than an armed one. The way Hamas conducts themselves hiding with their weaponry in tunnels underneath homes, hospitals, mosques etc is akin to guerrilla war.

@LetThereBeLove as I said, I did expect a military response. I'm not that naive to think there would not have been one. I didn't think there would be such disregard for the life of civilians. And we have seen this over and over again during the war. Do you know after the ceasefire started the IDF shot and killed an Israeli contractor that they had hired themselves in Gaza. He was in civilian clothes so was probably assumed to be Palestinian. These are not just isolated 'mistakes'. This is the result of Palestinian lives having no value for many in the IDF.

It has always been the goal to get the hostages back but sadly they are still not all home by any means. 🎗️ And yes the other goal was to destroy Hamas which even more sadly for both Israelis and Palestinians that hasn't happened.

The IDF is the Israeli Defense Force. They are Israeli. They defend Israel. Of course they value Israeli lives more than Palestinian. It's the same with every single army everywhere in the world.

Hamas is supposed to defend Palestinians. Not Israel. Hamas. And instead of defending their own people and valuing their lives they proudly martyr them to the cause.

And people on here hate Israel more.

It doesn't make sense.

Do you think Israel gives a shit about Gaza? How is that being prejudiced against Israel when they've shown time and time again they don't?
Yes the IDF did murder those 62,000 people did they not? In what way is that being prejudiced towards Israel? Unless you believe it's all propaganda?
Of course it's the IDF and the Israeli Government's responsibility for what went on in the 15 months after Oct 7,if not theirs then who's? Italy, France maybe? If it was any other country I'd be saying the same thing

@dairydebris you are spectacular missing the point. Its not about the IDF valuing Palestinians as much as Israelis, which in a realistic world is not likely to happen. It's about the total disregard of Palestinian lives than leads to the extremely high number of deaths that we are discussing. Who is pulling the trigger on the Palestinians?

If you are still in denial about this, despite everything we have seen over the war, then there's not much more that will convince you.

The Palestinians had been saying for a long time that they were being targeted directly, even though it was clear they were only civilians or even just children. But nobody paid attention to it until the fatal day the IDF shot their own hostages.
It was only then that many international organisations acknowledged that the IDF were not operating within the framework of international law.

But I think you are missing the point.

Whether or not the IDF were intentionally targeting civilians is not something you or I can judge. Whether they were intentionally killed, or killed as collateral while the IDF were going after Hamas is probably something we'd disagree on. That's not the point I'm making.

The point I'm making is that the IDF wouldn't have been in Gaza at all had Hamas not first invaded Israel on 7 October. And there's no doubt at all that civilians were intentionally targeted that day.

These 62000 deaths would not have occurred had 7 October not occurred. That's the point I'm making.

Such as?

And how many fewer if Hamas had released the hostages and surrendered- but somehow, that seems unthinkable, doesn't it? It's funny how we 'appeal' to Israel to ceasefire, to compromise, but no one bothers to 'appeal' to Hamas because we know they don't care, the more 'martyrs' the better, as they sit in Qatari hotel rooms, directing the billions in foreign aid into rocket manufactures and tunnel building.

Nobody disputes that. What is disputed is what deal would have been palatable earlier. Its a fantasy to say a deal could have been done in october 23 as someone has said here because Hamas would not have surrendered the hostages & their military capability.

This. Its extraordinary. Even now. Where is the international pressure to dismantle Hamas? Where are the marches to save Palestinians from Hamas. Not only nowhere to be seen but apologism and equivocation.

This is the absolute worst of it. There's no hope for a better life for Gazans until Hamas is gone and more moderate Palestinian voices can be heard. This is what everyone should be agitating for.

"A better life for Gazans". Have you see Gaza lately?

As for 'and what have Israel achieved?'; well, a serious weakening of Iran and its influence; of Hezbollah, the ability for the Lebanese to gain some sort of control back over the defacto army and command of Palestinians, (Hezbollah), making Lebanon a target; the questionable role of UNRWA; surrounding neighbours now thinking twice about whether attacking Israel is such a good idea; a new understanding of who does, and doesn't -support the Palestinian 'cause' in the Middle East.

How about those?

And for the unconditional release of the Israeli hostages.

Ignoring the point again. You will never hold Hamas culpable.

@Lalaloveya Gaza can be rebuilt. Check out Hiroshima and Dresden.

It's just that no one will be investing in Gaza til it rids itself of its terrorist government.