Gaza death toll rises to close to 62000 as missing added

[Lalaloveya]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/2/3/gaza-death-toll-rises-close-to-62000-as-missing-added

The new death toll includes 17,881 children, including 214 newborn infants.

At least 1,155 medical personnel, 205 journalists and 194 civil defence workers are reported to have been killed.

More than 2million people have been displaced and 111,588 people injured.

And to add I'm appalled to see Hamas front and centre in the hostage release footage. Asserting their stranglehold over a traumatised vulnerable population. I hope it is just a means to an end to get the hostages out and I would like to think phase two looking at rebuilding Gaza physically and psychologically will plan out Hamas and their ilk.

And many, many civilian lives wouldn't have been lost at all had Hamas not planned and carried out the atrocities of 7 October.
True

Let's not forget that the atrocities committed that day were aimed at civilians.
True. Although, as there is compulsory military service in Israel there is a murky line on the term "civilian" there.

At a party. In peacetime. Families in their homes. Civilians were the actual targets.
True - with the above caveat.

Why is it so hard to admit it's Hamas' fault?
Not true. everybody concedes that point. Over and over again.

Would Israel just have started intensive bombing campaigns for shits and giggles?
Yes.

The utterly wasteful death of so many Palestinians lies firstly with Hamas.
True.

Happy?

Can we now talk about IDF and Israeli government response?

Or do you not want to go there?

So much sympathy and so much trauma felt for those people.

Rightly so.

For the 67,000 killed in retaliation?

None.

It becomes hard to empathize.

Of course Hamas was going to use these releases for propaganda purposes. What do you mean, means to an end to get the hostages out? We know Israel had to hand over criminals and terrorists to Hamas. Do how will 'planning out Hamas' actually happen? Please point is to the articles, the discussions on news programmes or online, who do you think has put forward sensible proposals for a practical way of getting rid of Hamas?

No discernable gains on either side.

This is a massive loss for Israel.

People won't say in public, but privately most despise what they have done.

They have lost so much good will - a nasty government saying nasty things, a vicious response, people losing jobs when they protest, funding being pulled from US/UK universities if they did not comply with Israel first narrative, online bullying and harassment, and much more.

This will bubble and boil.

A dreadful outcome for Israel.

But hey, it kept Netanyahu out of jail.

Means to an end: get the hostages out safely before moving to next phase

Please point is to the articles, the discussions on news programmes or online, who do you think has put forward sensible proposals for a practical way of getting rid of Hamas? It's endless you're well able to Google. There has been countless articles, discussions, debates on this. No idea how you've missed it tbh.

Do how will 'planning out Hamas' actually happen? Way above my pay grade but to put it simply provide a realistic alternative for people.

You find it hard to empathise for whom?

You may feel trauma for the innocent people of Gaza, but that’s different to blaming Israel for their deaths.

If you believe, as you stated above, that the IDF would have just gone ahead and bombed 62k people into oblivion for shits and giggles, and that it wasn't done in response to October 7th, then no, I don't believe we can have any sensible discussion about the IDF. You've pre judged that they would have done this with no provocation. You've clearly got an axe to grind, I don't wish to give you any space to spew your hatred.

Can you point me to the movement to bring democracy to Gaza?

This is a bit bloody rich when Israel and the US under George W Bush did everything they could to undermine a well functioning democracy with well run, internationally moderated elections.

They were not hostages. They were arrested for throwing stones at a minimum and committing murder and other atrocities at the other end of the scale. Your hatred of Israel shows through with every post.

You get no hatred from me.

It is not the first time that use the word hatred when dealing with a point you would rather not address.

This statement of mine does not put me in an "axe to grind" corner along with the faint taint of anti semite that that entails. Don't do it.

that the IDF would have just gone ahead and bombed 62k people into oblivion for shits and giggles,

I do believe that the Israeli government would, and does, deploy its army against Palestinians and Lebanese for their own gain and often on flimsy excuses. I am in the company of Israeli army staff, and many Israeli citizens in this belief, many of whom, at all levels, have been denouncing war crimes. Many asked the government to cease fire a long time ago.

We could talk about it in the context of the West Bank and the current Israeli incursions if you like.

They were arrested for throwing stones

And held with charge in Israeli prisons.

Your hatred of Israel shows through with every post.

Your hatred of Palestinians shows through with every post.

That's as may or may not be. But George W Bush was an awful long time ago. Do you really think so little of Palestinians? Where is the pro-Palestinian movement for democracy? In or out of the region?

Are you serious? There has been no election in Gaza since 2006 if memory serves me correctly. Hamas was elected, Israel forcibly removed Jewish settlers from their homes in Gaza then. Hamas has received billions of $$$ since that time, much of it used to keep their leaders in comfort elsewhere, and most of the rest used to build their underground tunnels throughout Gaza as well as keeping a huge supply of armaments there. No democracy in Gaza at all.

So, nothing then. That's fine.

I have never illustrated any hate towards Palestinians on these threads but you do you.

Again, I find that very unfair.

Israel and their US partner deliberately destroyed a well functioning democratic system in order to weaken their foe as a political force.

Nethanyhu funded Hamas to that end.

Now, with the US and Israeli policy a roaring success - as in - Hamas run the place - you want to turn around and make that the fault of the Palestinians?

How fucking far can you actually go in making these people solely responsible for the devastation brought upon them by Israel and America?

Unbelievable.

No you are unbelievable. There has been NO functioning democratic system in Gaza since 2006. Hamas has been funded by Iran.

Ha ha that's not what I said at all I'm just bemused that you seem to think you're the only person that has ever asked these questions when a quick Google will bring you countless information and research on the topic.

@LetThereBeLove

Exactly.

No election since Hamas won.

Read a little on the history Palestinian elections.

I also recommend reading on the very early days of Hamas, and their interactions with Israeli government, mainly Nethanyahu.

Iran came later.

What well functioning democratic sytem was in Gaza? When?

putting that aside, where did I say they were solely responsible? Palestinians are one of the most meddled with people in the world. But at the same time, they bear some responsibility, surely? Otherwise, someone else has to come in and run Gaza. I thought that was imperialism. But putting aside that loaded word, who would it be? You cant have it both ways.

andIsaid
How can it be democratic to not hold an election for almost 20 years? #answersonapostcardplease

OK.

I believe war crimes have most likely been committed by Israeli forces during this conflict. I believe war brings out the worst in humans and that we are all to some extent capable of terrible things. I believe Netanyahu cares more for his own political skin than for Israeli or Palestinian citizens. I believe the embrace of the far right elements in current Israeli government is a stain on the history of Israel. I find some of the stories coming out of the West Bank absolutely awful, in particular I would mention the likely sniper shooting of Mohammed Kanaan and Loujain Mosleh. There can be no justification for a sniper targeting children. I believe the Palestinian people have a legitimate claim on the land ( although I find Israel's claim more persuasive ) and I hope one day they can have a land that's all their own, a Palestinian state, and that they can live there free from oppression, at peace with their neighbors.

I still believe that given the two sides, Hamas is the worst aggressor, and it's idealogy is the bigger obstacle to peace.

I'm not sure that engaging you in a back and forth is really possible given the fact that you believe the IDF would bomb 62k people to death for no reason, or even a 'flimsy' one. But ok, let's see if you can engage meaningfully.

andIsaid in what capacity are you 'in the company of Israeli army staff'?

From the get go, Israel's existence depends on Palestinian land.

Israel is expansionist.

Israel gets a 4 billion cash injection every year from the US plus its political, diplomatic and military backing.

There is very little Palestinians can do when faced with the combined might of the USA and Israel.

Otherwise, someone else has to come in and run Gaza. This is the problem in a nutshell - if Israel stayed out of Palestinian affairs they would be able to turn it around.

It is Israeli interference that messes it up.

Which is of course what Israel wants.