American proposal to clear out Gaza

[Daftasabroom]

Trump is proposing to "clear out" Gaza.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/01/25/politics/trump-gaza-strip-jordan-egypt

So USA is actually proposing that the Gaza Strip should be cleared of Palestinians. 1.5 million people.

You know what. I hate to say it but you might be right.

I certainly wouldn't have thought any one else other than Trump would have the sheer brass balls / utter ignorance of history or nuance of the region to suggest such a plan.

Has Hamas' atrocity of 7 October been the final insult in a seemingly interminable conflict, will this be a way to finally stop the slaughter? How ironic that it would mean Palestinians having no chance of their own state.

I would never advocate for this ethnic cleansing... but it's a way to stop the bloodshed.

Interesting times.

I would never advocate for this ethnic cleansing... but it's a way to stop the bloodshed.

You have now way of knowing that. I don't think ethnic cleansing Gaza is likely to bring an end to any bloodshed

Maybe yes. Just exporting the bloodshed elsewhere.

My mind is absolutely boggled.

There should never be a 'but' after 'I don't support ethnic cleansing '. It is an inexcusable crime against humanity.

Some things just should never have a "but" after them.

Incredibly revolting, not to mention foolish and dangerous.

Hard to see how it doesn't cement support for Hamas and lead to increased risk of terrorism. Particularly at a time when allies could be understandably reluctant to share intelligence with a man who kept classified documents in his bathroom and is about to appoint a Director of National Intelligence who has been credibly linked to Assad and Putin.

How likely is this?

I mean I know pp can't answer with certainty

Not as unlikely as one might hope. Trump has the ego, entitlement and narcissism to absolutely be willing to go for this. How far he actually goes will depend more on the willingness and ability of other people around him to rein him in, and he's surrounded himself with people who do not have good track records of saying no to him.

Even the proposal presents a risk of real harm - he's proposing ethnic cleansing and annexation/occupation by the US, trampling over the sovereignty of other countries in the process and undermining years' worth of diplomatic relations. That harms trust and will have repercussions for how not only Trump but the US as a whole is viewed in international relations in the longer-term.

@BelleHathor - had to watch after your saying that. Netanyahu is looking like WTF are you saying when he is talking about the Palestinians having a miserable existence and being shot at and then he looks like he’s going to burst when Trump talks about the US occupying Gaza. I don’t think he realised he would be saying it so directly.

“I think it’s worth paying attention to” “he’s exploring it with his people” “We want Gaza to never threaten Israel again - Trump is bringing it to next level”. Not a, we’re doing this, reaction. Probably because he knows this plan is very unlikely to happen.

It’s a new dawn anyway. Openly speaking about occupation and ethnic cleansing.

The world’s people will live there!

I can’t believe that instead of the complete destruction and flattening of Gaza becoming a stain on Israel it’s now the main selling point of these proposed further crimes against the Palestinians.

@mollyfolk Exactly, this smacks of something discussed privately, that Trump just blurted out unexpectedly, look at the way Netanyahu is grabbing the podium.

Thankfully, a lot of people around the world are shocked at the open call for ethnic cleansing. Judging by social media MAGA are very pissed off with Trump, he promised no more wars and America First and "owning Gaza" and boots on the ground in the Middle East are not what they want.

He’s literally gripping the podium at points.

I mean ultimately, purely from an Israeli point of view, why am earth would Hamas release the rest of the hostages now? they were all they had to “bargain” with.

I think it's a ploy to gain leverage - and he has no real intention in having US boots on the ground. But there will be an ulterior motive and he will have a plan that he wants to push through instead, which will seem relatively reasonable to many in comparison. My guess is whatever it is it does not have the best interests of Gazans at heart. In the meantime I don't think this suggestion is in Israel's best interests either, and could cause the ceasefire to fail.

I doubt there will be US boots / troops it would be another way via incentive or another doing something

I wonder if this was floated at the cease fire agreement to get it over the line, or that was more stop or else

"Israel just want to stop people trying to annihilate it" .... erm by actually annihilating 1.7 million civillians? Do some people not consider Palestinians living breathing human beings who should be afforded the same rights as any Israeli?! There seems to be massive cognitive dissonance amongst people cheering for this.

How would people feel if Russia or China said they were going to remove all of Israel to create peace since that country is the aggressor? Try and have a bit of bloody empathy.

I suspect the US and Israel have every reason to want the ceasefire to end. It'll allow them to finish the job of rendering Gaza unlivable now that they've revealed their ultimate plan for the area.

As for the international community. We now know there is no way of stopping fascists from doing exactly what they want, whenever they want. We might as well be back in the middle ages.

Agreed.

They would be accused to being antisemetic straight away, but Palestinians are fair game

You're sure the Israelis do? How many Israelis do you know? All the ones I know think it's a terrible idea

They haven't annihilated (to use your turn of phrase) 1.7 million people though.

Good point about netanyahu - it made literally no sense for him to be standing there during this & does confirm the plan all along was to get ownership which people "knew" but Israel was denying

It will be alot more difficult to come back from this for Israelis - trump will carry on as the village idiot

It is a popular policy amongst Israelis as they fear for their future security. In addition a lot of Palestinians want to leave the territory and I was listening to a young Palestinian woman openly admit she sees no hope for her children in wasteland and therefore would readily accept moving to another country to allow her family a prosperous healthy life. I think this is a view that is under reported and the media are actively seeking out Palestinians who wish to remain in Gaza to interview.

When Hamas start criticising a policy as being racist and against human rights we really have to look at our selves if we take statements from the instigators of October 7th seriously. The excursion of Palestinians from Gaza would allow the backing of Hnas and other ideologically hateful groups to be dissipated and a threat removed at least partially from Israel.

We also have to consider the success of migration and to look at migration purely with the lens of ethnic cleansing maybe skewed. There are many people from the middle East that wish to live in Europe as evidenced by immigration being a bit topic politically so to say moving from a middle Eastern elsewhere amounts to a hideous punishment is simply not the case.

No one as far as I can see has put down a hopeful vision for Gaza except for being an impoverished sub state reliant on global charity for its existnce. Surely long term this can only lead to resentment amongst people that a leads to the political climate that views jihad and terrorism as an outlet for suffering. It also doesn't help that Hamas and presumably a majority of the Palestinian people won't relinquish maximalist goals in terms of reverting Israel to Palesrinain rule and this view can never sit with the idea of a long lasting peace.

It therefore seems pragmatic to look at emigration as a solution to the Gaza conflict as there are some for all people. The Israelis gain security, the Palestinians have hope for their families with less fear of poverty and war. Hamas do not have a geographical base and the hate filled ideology will suffer.

I don't think Trump articulated this well but some of his policy deserves at least a hearong.

@mids2019 - people moving to Europe from the Middle East is a completely different topic to forcibly removing one ethnic group from an occupied territory. Giving Palestinians the option to flee is different also from forcibly removing them. Can you think of any ethnics cleansing that worked out really well for the people involved and everyone lived happily ever after?

Hamas are not the only ones condemning the plan. It’s been condemned on all sides. It’s unlikely to happen as Trump will have laid out.

I do think that Palestinian’s will be forced to flee in large numbers anyway, if they can flee. Gaza has truly been flattened. Israel’s ultimate plan - maximum destruction, make Gaza unliveable.

Anyway someone does need to ask the Palestinians what they want in all this. They are human being not chess pieces that the world can move around.

@mids2019 The proposal is not one of voluntary migration. The proposal is to force all Palestinians to leave - permanently - and take ownership of their land - permanently taking it away from Palestinians. Trump's policy does not deserve a hearing because it is contrary to key principles of international law.

Are you missing that bit out because you don't understand it or because you agree with it as an approach?

Looking at survey data in Israel, I don't think many Israelis want to come back from this - a majority look to consider Trump's proposal to be desirable.

It's quite difficult not to sympathize with that POV post 7 October.