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Conflict in the Middle East
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statsfun · 01/02/2025 09:49

That sounds really difficult @mangoandmelon

mids2019 · 02/02/2025 05:41

For all those dismissive of Trump in reality he is the one that applied pressure for the current ceasefire which a lot of protestors were wanting(?).

The great fear going forward if that it looks like Hamas are going to cling to power and the PA as well as other Arab states are refusing to interfere with the governance of Gaza because of the popularity of Hamaz. Yes let's say it Hamas, the instigators of October 7th, are still popular in Gaza. Recent hostage releases have allowed Hamas to pontificate about continued resistance while brandishing semi automatic weapons.....this is not the voice of peace but the voice of hate.

I therefore think migration from Gaza could be a positive as it looks like peace is desperately remote. Israel is likely to set up an incredibly controlled buffer zone between itself and Gaza with Gaza having to economically function with no trading party and little resource. The only way Gaza is going to function is for the territory to become the focus of global charity with essentially massive bills for unemployment benefit and essential public services. Remember this money is going to be controlled by terrorists i.e. Hamas. We are expecting the world to rearm and support Hamas by charitable giving which is simply ludicrous. Hamas as has been pointed out are recruiting thousands of young men who have been brought up to have Israel as a paramilitary in waiting to seek out opportunities to terrorise Israel all while they are being fed ultimately by other counties.

Maybe the only path to peace in the real world is to admit it can't be a beloved with Gaza as is and look for the displacement of Palestinians to weaken Hamas and give in reality better prospects for individual citizens rather than living in a building site with the prospect of further conflict never to far from their minds. We can't just keep painting a small impoverished terror state ad infintum.

Lalaloveya · 02/02/2025 08:26

Hamas being in power is certainly a threat.

However the biggest threat to Gaza is their neighbours, Israel. Until something changes in terms of Israel's treatment of Gaza (and the West Bank) the future is bleak.

MissyB1 · 02/02/2025 08:30

@mids2019 We don’t know all the details of the deal struck by Trump to get this ceasefire. Who knows what was promised to Israel? I certainly fear It will turn out to be very bad for the Palestinians.

dairydebris · 02/02/2025 08:57

Lalaloveya · 02/02/2025 08:26

Hamas being in power is certainly a threat.

However the biggest threat to Gaza is their neighbours, Israel. Until something changes in terms of Israel's treatment of Gaza (and the West Bank) the future is bleak.

But surely you can see that as long as Hamas is in power then Israel has no real choice but to oppress Gaza, in hopes of oppressing Hamas and keeping Israeli citizens safe?

There is no hope for Gaza as long as Hamas are in charge.

Lalaloveya · 02/02/2025 09:52

dairydebris · 02/02/2025 08:57

But surely you can see that as long as Hamas is in power then Israel has no real choice but to oppress Gaza, in hopes of oppressing Hamas and keeping Israeli citizens safe?

There is no hope for Gaza as long as Hamas are in charge.

Show quote history

They were doing that for decades before Hamas existed though. And why are they "oppressing" the West Bank?

Dulra · 02/02/2025 10:05

@dairydebris @mids2019 what you are both dressing up as good for Palestinians is clearing them out of Gaza and dispersing them elsewhere. Of course that is what would be good for Israel but I don't know how you can't see that that would in effect mark the end for Palestinians. They would cease to exist and get diluted into other nations. Absolutely there is a very long road to achieve peace and prosperity in Gaza and to work at moving away from the bomb and the gun but clearing out the entire population seems extreme and in effect ethnic cleansing. You can suggest it is for their own good but is it really?

I have asked this already on this thread but not got an answer. Once they're gone what becomes of Gaza?

gloriagloria · 02/02/2025 10:19

I agree there is no hope for peace while Hamas or Netanyahu’s government are in power. But I really don’t see how deportation would help. A proportion of the exiled population will be Hamas, who will continue to recruit from an angry and dispossessed population. Why do you think that the Egyptian and Jordanian governments, who have their own problems in spades, will be able to stop them when Israel couldn’t militarily? They will launch further attacks on Israel, who will retaliate against Jordan and Egypt further destabilizing the region. I wouldn’t be surprised if we ended up with “buffer zones” on Egyptian and Jordanian soil. And there are precious few livelihood opportunities for the current residents of Egypt and Jordan - how are Palestinians supposed to thrive and integrate? It can only end badly for Egypt and Jordan and the population of Gaza, with the only winners being Israel.

And what will become of the West Bank? How long before increased settlement and Israeli violence with impunity means this area blows up and becomes “unviable” and this population is deported. Once this is done once a precedent is set.

mids2019 · 02/02/2025 15:14

Remember there have been very successful migrations of people throughout history. The US is literally a migrant nation to an extent. I don't think migraton should be viewed as a doomsday scenario.

The interest in a migration from Gaza as given the foreseeable political climate I can't see peace working. Yes politicians talk of the two state solution but this mantra is looking increasingly hollow given the failure to Ihace peace for decades and I am afraid October 7th has driven peace to quite a remote place.

The idea of leaving Hamas to groom thousands of impoverished embittered young men to form the next wave of attack on Israel is absolutely real. Hamas have not changed; their reason for existence is still the destruction of Israel. After the recent holocaust memorial events we have to member if Hamas were given the equivalent military strength of Naxi Germany we simply would have another holocaust. The terrorists on October 7th were only stopped in their rampage if terror because they had vastly inferior arms to the IDF.

Set against this background to our can see Israel's case yo destroy Hamas and if that can't be done militarily maybe you look to political means. You could weaken Hamas politically by allowing migration of Palestinian civilians from whom they draw support.

The alternative is to have a very poor territory that will continue to be a breeding ground for terrorism exacerbated by what will be a poorly performing economy. Gazan civilians will blame the poverty on Israel and will continue to support those that promise vengeance i.e. Hamas. The only long term outcome seems to be another terrorist outburst at some point and we are back to square one

Lalaloveya · 02/02/2025 15:18

@mids2019 you might think that the ethnic cleansing of Gaza is a good solution but I would be fairly sure that most Palestinians don't want that.

What happens to Gaza once you get rid of all the people there?

Dulra · 02/02/2025 15:33

Lalaloveya · 02/02/2025 15:18

@mids2019 you might think that the ethnic cleansing of Gaza is a good solution but I would be fairly sure that most Palestinians don't want that.

What happens to Gaza once you get rid of all the people there?

What happens to Gaza once you get rid of all the people there?

They don't seem interested in answering that.

Liv999 · 02/02/2025 18:25

Does anyone have any idea on what would happen to Gaza once the Palestinins are ethnically cleansed from the area?

dairydebris · 02/02/2025 18:33

Liv999 · 02/02/2025 18:25

Does anyone have any idea on what would happen to Gaza once the Palestinins are ethnically cleansed from the area?

Oh come on. It's a thought experiment from the screaming black hole that is the inside of Trump's mind. Neither Egypt or Jordan is taking them, for good reasons that we all know of. So no, we have no idea what Gaza would be used for, in that completely hypothetical instance.
Were you hoping that some of us would suggest handing over the land to Israel?
No one answered because it's a pointless question.

EasterIssland · 02/02/2025 18:48

dairydebris · 02/02/2025 18:33

Oh come on. It's a thought experiment from the screaming black hole that is the inside of Trump's mind. Neither Egypt or Jordan is taking them, for good reasons that we all know of. So no, we have no idea what Gaza would be used for, in that completely hypothetical instance.
Were you hoping that some of us would suggest handing over the land to Israel?
No one answered because it's a pointless question.

Show quote history

Some posters in this thread agree with the black hole inside trumps head so I don’t think @Liv999 is a stupid question.

T4phage · 04/02/2025 18:40

Gaza will be turned into prime waterfront land for the rich to treat as a playground. Housing, luxury resorts, that kind of thing. I predicted this at the start of the war.

Next, they'll start clearing the west bank. This was always the game plan.

MangoAndMelon · 04/02/2025 18:47

Isn't KSA working on luxury Red sea waterfronts?
Don't think Israel has to bomb someone to get "desirable" near former bombsite seaside tbh. They are already doing ok on dead sea (price) and have plenty of med seafront?

Firealarm1414 · 05/02/2025 00:57

It doesn't make sense. Except as some deranged ploy to get hamas back to the table to negotiate a permanent end to the war, and cease all hostilities against Israel under threat of losing Gaza to the Americans?

PiggyPigalle · 05/02/2025 01:00

Trump says US will 'take over and own' the Gaza Strip and send troops into war zone 'if necessary'

letsallchant · 05/02/2025 01:17

PiggyPigalle · 05/02/2025 01:00

Trump says US will 'take over and own' the Gaza Strip and send troops into war zone 'if necessary'

I thought he was against any involvement in combat action for the USA? Though none of his supporters seem to notice the inconsistencies.

letsallchant · 05/02/2025 01:20

So Greenland and now Gaza are in his sights to become American property? Next he'll be announcing he's pitching to colonise the moon.

andIsaid · 05/02/2025 02:33

So basically @mids2019 you would like the Palestinians to leave and create exactly the same diaspora that was so egregious, that Jewish people the world over have a right to return and settle the land 1,000s 0f years later?

Have I got that right?

andIsaid · 05/02/2025 02:36

mids2019 · 02/02/2025 05:41

For all those dismissive of Trump in reality he is the one that applied pressure for the current ceasefire which a lot of protestors were wanting(?).

The great fear going forward if that it looks like Hamas are going to cling to power and the PA as well as other Arab states are refusing to interfere with the governance of Gaza because of the popularity of Hamaz. Yes let's say it Hamas, the instigators of October 7th, are still popular in Gaza. Recent hostage releases have allowed Hamas to pontificate about continued resistance while brandishing semi automatic weapons.....this is not the voice of peace but the voice of hate.

I therefore think migration from Gaza could be a positive as it looks like peace is desperately remote. Israel is likely to set up an incredibly controlled buffer zone between itself and Gaza with Gaza having to economically function with no trading party and little resource. The only way Gaza is going to function is for the territory to become the focus of global charity with essentially massive bills for unemployment benefit and essential public services. Remember this money is going to be controlled by terrorists i.e. Hamas. We are expecting the world to rearm and support Hamas by charitable giving which is simply ludicrous. Hamas as has been pointed out are recruiting thousands of young men who have been brought up to have Israel as a paramilitary in waiting to seek out opportunities to terrorise Israel all while they are being fed ultimately by other counties.

Maybe the only path to peace in the real world is to admit it can't be a beloved with Gaza as is and look for the displacement of Palestinians to weaken Hamas and give in reality better prospects for individual citizens rather than living in a building site with the prospect of further conflict never to far from their minds. We can't just keep painting a small impoverished terror state ad infintum.

You are advocating for ethic cleansing under all sorts of rational guises.

However, we see you.

andIsaid · 05/02/2025 02:45

mids2019 · 02/02/2025 05:41

For all those dismissive of Trump in reality he is the one that applied pressure for the current ceasefire which a lot of protestors were wanting(?).

The great fear going forward if that it looks like Hamas are going to cling to power and the PA as well as other Arab states are refusing to interfere with the governance of Gaza because of the popularity of Hamaz. Yes let's say it Hamas, the instigators of October 7th, are still popular in Gaza. Recent hostage releases have allowed Hamas to pontificate about continued resistance while brandishing semi automatic weapons.....this is not the voice of peace but the voice of hate.

I therefore think migration from Gaza could be a positive as it looks like peace is desperately remote. Israel is likely to set up an incredibly controlled buffer zone between itself and Gaza with Gaza having to economically function with no trading party and little resource. The only way Gaza is going to function is for the territory to become the focus of global charity with essentially massive bills for unemployment benefit and essential public services. Remember this money is going to be controlled by terrorists i.e. Hamas. We are expecting the world to rearm and support Hamas by charitable giving which is simply ludicrous. Hamas as has been pointed out are recruiting thousands of young men who have been brought up to have Israel as a paramilitary in waiting to seek out opportunities to terrorise Israel all while they are being fed ultimately by other counties.

Maybe the only path to peace in the real world is to admit it can't be a beloved with Gaza as is and look for the displacement of Palestinians to weaken Hamas and give in reality better prospects for individual citizens rather than living in a building site with the prospect of further conflict never to far from their minds. We can't just keep painting a small impoverished terror state ad infintum.

Nice try there.

This is not about Hamas.

This is a land grab and ethnic cleansing.