Last functioning hospital in Northern Gaza is stormed by the IDF

[Whatsinanamehey]

If it wasn't already clear that Israel is carrying out ethnic cleansing in the north of Gaza, then this is the final straw.

IDF soldiers have posted countless videos mocking at the destruction they have caused in the north. The north of Gaza has suffered massacre after massacre at the hands of Israel and after repeatedly targeting the Kamal Adwan hospital, they have now forced them to evacuate after bombing and killing several medics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx26v70n5z4o.amp

I listened to the news on radio 4 this evening and they mentioned these attacks from the Idf.

It is very confusing to know what is and what is not true.
a. Are Hamas so stupid they really think they won’t be targeted in a hospital and so they use them as command and control centres?
or
b. Has he been coerced in some way to say this?

I was alerted in the video subtitles to his using the phrase ‘command and control centre’ which sounds suspiciously out of the IDF’s phrase book. On the other hand that could be an over generalised translation of a phrase which in his original language (Arabic) might not have been the same as the Hebrew/Hebrew to English version.

I agree, if as video goes, Hamas and other terrorist factions were to-ing and fro-ing every day and night using hospitals as their primary supply depots for weapons and ammunition for the entire war, then how did all these militants transporting all this gear- literally tons of it- ghost past all the drone, plane and satellite surveillance covering Gaza 24/7 with night vision? We know there are no tunnels going directly into and out of the hospitals. There would be at least a shred of evidence. I know IDF has alleged they use the ambulances, but every ambulance they have struck/blown up has not had any militants in it.

I’m open to clear and convincing evidence. A spliced and diced interrogation by with physical evidence of torture isn’t that imho. Notice too how he always refers to Hamas as ‘they’ not ‘we’ - that could be a translation error in the subtitles but if it isn’t, that’s a subtle sign that he’s not a member of Hamas and has been fed a script by the interrogator.

I think it's a bit strange and yet it's seen a lot on here that Israel has eyes and ears on Gaza and is somewhat omnipotent.

Israel has an advanced military and surveillance capabilities but it is not omniscient. It's not got an all seeing eye over Gaza and if it did then the war would have been over very quickly with the hostages back and Hamas eradicated.

Israel is fighting a guerrilla way and that's why fighting has continued.

With regard to hospitals Hamas has said itself it uses hospitals. This is the most documented and there is footage, testimonials, reports etc. This is no new thing either.... this was in several media sources around the world pre Oct 7th.

^It's not got an all seeing eye over Gaza
and if it did then the war would have been over very quickly with the hostages back and Hamas eradicated^

But whenever the IDF has bombed a school, hospital or tent camp and numerous civilians have been killed, the IDF itself responds by saying they have precision targeted a ‘command and control centre’.

So that is the IDF effectively claiming they know with their all seeing eye what they are targeting every time, not just taking pot-luck incase in the midst of all the civilians they might get some terrorists. Though given the war was not over long ago for lack of eradicating terrorists as you suggested, maybe the pot-luck version is more like it, with mostly civilians getting killed instead.

The IDF were so successful in knowing the whereabouts of and targeting various leaders in Lebanon that I started thinking maybe they did know where everyone was.

I do think Hamas fighters were stupid if they still thought hospitals were safe to use as meeting centres and weapons arsenals with many of them coming and going every day or night, in this case not even in an alleged underground complex.
(No doubt however there have been wounded Hamas fighters in the hospitals.)

I think there is so little evidence of a command centre in any of the hospitals in Gaza that it's safe to say hospitals are being targeted as part of the genocidal effort in Gaza by Israel.

I would also think of two more reasons. First, land grab. As the population loses its social structures like hospitals, schools, residential buildings they will be forced to move out or give control to Israel, especially considering Palestinians don't have financial means to rebuild even if conditions would let them.

The other reason, during last Christmas break, there were groups of international doctors (and nurses) who went to volunteer in Gaza hospitals. These doctors were first hand witnesses on what was happening to civilian population, especially children. Without the hospitals, there are no places to volunteer anymore, and no more witnesses.

I think there is so little evidence of a command centre in any of the hospitals in Gaza that it's safe to say hospitals are being targeted as part of the genocidal effort in Gaza by Israel.

If that was the case then why would Israel instruct those in the hospital to leave? If it was truly genocidal would you not just leave them there?

@ScrollingLeaves much like the positions on here I believe there is a middle ground between 'precision attack' and 'pot luck' and I am surprised you think otherwise.

Exactly. A guerilla war is always horrific and protracted and we have seen tons of evidence of the tunnel network and how Hamas use it and as you say we knew about it before 7/10. We keep being told everything is destroyed. Israel is all powerful but somehow also remarkably inefficient and incompetent while also having magical powers to keep destroying things that are already destroyed and despite destroying 'everything' the hostages cant be found. The criticism of Israel is so inconsistent and morphs into whatever people want Israel to be to support an argument at any given time. When you try to pin the facts or argument down to something meaningful the goalposts move and it can't discussed because by even wanting to look at facts or evidence you are revealing that you don't care about dying babies and 'genocide'. Its emotional manipulation and its not really about the victims at all. Im not suggesting that there is nothing to criticise Israel for but there's no point in a conversation with someone whose only setting is Israel is wrong about everything and is an evil genocidal machine.

There is loads of evidence of Hamas's tunnels, that there are tunnels under hospitals, that there are Hamas personnel in hospitals etc. No Im not going to spend my time digging it up and posting it because the people that need to see it wont look at it anyway and I've got other things to do. If you're saying there is no evidence then you are either so incurious you haven't looked, or you've seen it and don't want to believe it. Sensible people know how to do research & will do it anyway.

You make good points but many won't listen and don't see the contradictions in what they say. Hamas still operate, it is guerilla warfare with them.moving hiding and using their people. It's a mess with much suffering. Meanwhile terrorists still run the place and still hold hostages which they cannot even bother to say if they are actually alive or dead, they keep changing what they say.

When you try to pin the facts or argument down to something meaningful the goalposts move and it can't discussed because by even wanting to look at facts or evidence you are revealing that you don't care about dying babies and 'genocide'. Its emotional manipulation and its not really about the victims at all. Im not suggesting that there is nothing to criticise Israel for but there's no point in a conversation with someone whose only setting is Israel is wrong about everything and is an evil genocidal machine.

Can I just clarify who are you accusing of emotional manipulation? and what do you mean by its not really about the victims at all?

I heard the sad news this morning that Dr Hussam's mother died last night from a heart attack. Sadly, it seems the stress of his abduction may have had a factor in her deteriorating health.

No news on Dr Hussam yet if he will be released or allowed legal representation.

but many won't listen and don't see the contradictions in what they say.
Who are you referring to here?

Just concerned by these massive sweeping statements with no clarity on who you are both talking about. Very difficult to address your points without that

@ScrollingLeaves It is very confusing to know what is and what is not true.
a. Are Hamas so stupid they really think they won’t be targeted in a hospital and so they use them as command and control centres?
or
b. Has he been coerced in some way to say this?

I agree with this and again it is frustrating that there are no independent observers in Gaza to add some sort of neutral independent perspective. I do keep going back to the numerous witness statements from those international medics that have worked in the hospitals and returned home and their evidence that they did not see Hamas operating from hospitals. The UN has stated that the Israeli attacks are pushing the Gaza healthcare towards total collapse and there does not seem to be any plan from Israel on how they will rectify this.

There is evidence you just don't want to post it. OK 👍

Dr Hussam with his late mother. May she be re-united with her loved ones who have also passed.

"Classified Israeli intelligence documents, obtained and reviewed by The Times, indicate that the tunnel is at least 700 feet long, twice as long as the military revealed publicly, and that it extends beyond the hospital and likely connects to Hamas’s larger underground network."

It may/may not be a command centre but it is clear that underground tunnels with living areas exist.

It is also clear that hamas still operate, still fire rockets and are able to move around.

Just one example of an article showing tunnels. There are articles if you really want to see for yourself

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/02/12/world/middleeast/gaza-tunnel-israel-hamas.html

Classified Israeli intelligence documents

that to me means it can be unbiased and to take it with a pinch of salt.

Oh for goodness sakes, tunnels under Gaza is not a new revelation. The IDF 'uncovering' tunnels is not proof of anything. And it by no means justifes bombing and destroying hospitals which only increases the collective punishment of the Gazans as a whole.

and torturing and killing doctors, nurses and patients

Still waiting for evidence of the elaborate Hamas HQ in hospitals that the IDF have been claiming to further their attacks for over a year, yet have never managed a single picture of any of them.

Atleast ten hospitals bombed but no HQ. They did take a detailed video of a calender though so maybe we should just be satisfied with that.

I think we all know about the tunnels in Gaza.

If you're going to kill patients and medical staff and destroy a hospital I'd expect evidence of Hamas running the hospital as some form of justification for that. Otherwise it's a war crime.

Exactly.
The attacks on healthcare, critical infrastructure, the increased bombing of residential areas including tent camps in humanitarian zones coupled with blocking and denying humanitarian aid for long periods of time is collective punishment.
If you feel really really uncomfortable to acknowledge that it's a genocide then at the least any person with basic understanding would know that it is punishment of a people as a whole for the crimes of Hamas.

I think that is the rule on targeting civilian infrastructures. Solid evidence needs to be provided. Saying Hamas is there is not enough.