The future for Muslims in the UK is "bleak and dystopian"

[Scirocco]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/nov/17/muslims-face-bleak-and-dystopian-climate-in-uk-says-head-of-thinktank

According to a report by the Runnymede Trust. The crisis in Palestine and Lebanon is considered to be a major contributing factor.

Ok. If a single hotel is targeted again in that way against illegal immigrants, someone attempt to set fire to it, no one dies, it's a "pogrom".

If every mosque in the uk is burned down full of Muslims and they all die it's also a pogrom (a real one). But the word has lost a bit of its power though because it's being used for one off events of lesser seriousness (although obviously serious). We need a new word then for the mosque burning. to convey its real horror. What word would you use for that?

Same with the use of "far right" that you and 2TK used. If/when the real far right emerge how will you describe them?

TBF the far right and the far left are both pretty terrifying, ask anyone who's lived under communism. Their playbooks are similar but we just have to believe the far left are doing it for our own good.

They can alway go and live in a Muslim country though?

I have often wondered why Muslims especially, where their religion seems to be most important aspect of their identity, chose to live in a Christian country with a secular government. Obviously it’s not compatible.

As @quantumbutterfly stated Jews have much more to fear. The vast majority of terrorist attacks in recent history have been from Muslims so it’s not controversial that people associate the religion with that, but I don’t think we’ve ever seen a Jewish terrorist attack in the UK.

Why do we? What do you think the intention of setting fire to the hotel was? Not to burn it with people inside? You're also making it sound like one lone person setting it alight, not a mob supported by a further mod online.

If we aren't going to call racist white supremacists attacking Muslims while spouting far right rhetoric far right I dread to think what the real far right are and what they'd be doing. Could you tell me what they would be doing please?

My guess, they would be getting into positions of power and influence so they could eliminate their opposition, same as any other determined extremist group. You're fine as long as you agree with their stance. CF north Korea, China, Russia, Iran, Afghanistan...

If you're calling for elimination or silencing of an opposing group you're an extremist or the tool of one, if you seek integration you need to examine differing viewpoints fairly rather than shout them down.

Ummm... I was born here. My life is here. I have as much right as anyone else to live freely in my home country.

They can alway go and live in a Muslim country though?
Wow, just wow.
I have often wondered why Muslims especially, where their religion seems to be most important aspect of their identity, chose to live in a Christian country with a secular government. Obviously it’s not compatible.
Tell me you know nothing about history without telling me you know nothing. There have been Muslims in the UK for 300 years.
As stated Jews have much more to fear. The vast majority of terrorist attacks in recent history have been from Muslims so it’s not controversial that people associate the religion with that, but I don’t think we’ve ever seen a Jewish terrorist attack in the UK.
The vast majority of terrorist attacks have been from Islamists, not Muslims.
Educate yourself on the difference.

I think the issue is that tolerance levels have been pushed too far.
Apart from die hard racists most people accept different religions and cultures in the UK in a live and let live sort of way but the gaza protests have inspired some muslims to push far further than a large section of the UK population are comfortable with.
People don’t like all the flag waving and chanting on our streets and feel protective to jewish people who have been here far longer and have no association with terrorist attacks in the UK.
The UK is not a muslim country and many people now feel the need to push back at what they feel is overreach and an attempt to change the UK a step too far.
The pp says muslims and islam are separate but this is not the case to 99% of onlookers.

I have no idea what the real far right would be doing. I don't know what the definition of "far right" is any more as it's regularly used for members of the Conservative party.

So like the rise of a far right political party that was supported en masse by the people that were hunting Muslims in the street? But we aren't allowed to describe any of them as far right until they are in power to actually enact their racist policies?
Where did I call for elimination or silencing of anyone? I'm literally engaging in a debate where I'm asking people to speak and explain their viewpoints so how am I doing that? Asking people to explain their stated position is examining their viewpoint, how is it now?

Editing to add - if someone corrects something incorrect a PP stated, that's not shouting them down. If you don't have anything to back up what you're saying that isn't you being silenced or treated unfairly.

Does this apply to British as well when they move abroad to live ? Because many of those living in my country haven’t assimilate it and many of them don’t know the language.

So you have no idea what the far right would be doing, and we are talking about the actions people who identify as far right or support far right groups but we cant describe them as far right in case there's a future imaginary far right that you're not sure what would be different about them but we need to save the words far right for them? 🤔 Ok...

Well we're a divided country, aren't we? Because I don't actually know anyone who has a problem with the marches in support of Palestine. Many white British people I know are actively participating. Guess what, an increasing number of Jewish people are joining in too!
These protests are taking place all over the world. Not everyone feels like standing back and watching in silence.

I’m sorry @Scirocco that your thread with a valid reason to be scared about has turned into a racist thread

I think it is reasonable enough when you look at the current state of many Muslim majority countries and to not want to import those issues to western countries.

Ok if you really want me to write down what I, not a member of the far right as far as I am aware, think they might do I will try. If we look historically at the far right in Europe they seem to focus on a particular religious group you are correct. Moseleys facists in the UK didn't like that group either.

I can't really continue with this because it's pointless. My original point was that the phrase "far right" is also being over used and it's now losing its power. If you use it like Gary Lineker for anyone not in the Labour Party how will you describe the real far right?

Look, speaking as a random member of the British public, I appreciate there is a difference between Muslims and islamists.

However, without engaging in extensive conversation with people I can't tell the difference on sight and I am also aware that the majority of terror attacks are carried out by islamists.

Therefore I do draw back a bit and think about my safety when I see visible Muslims.

(I would never speak to a obviously Muslim man anyway as I'm aware that they have rules about not touching women they don't know and Muslim men have been known to refuse to shake hands or even speak with women in business contexts so I assume that they are best left alone)

So you're saying when far right violence is aimed at Jewish people we can call it far right but when it's aimed at Muslim people we can't call it far right (despite it being carried out by the same far right people)

Edited to add - I'm not Gary Linekar using it to describe the labour party. I'm using it to describe the people hunting and advocating hunting British Muslims and asylum seekers. You can take up however Gary uses it with him but you had an issue with me using it for people hunting down a group they've perceived as "other" and "enemy" .

Assaulting Muslims and people who look like they might be Muslim isn't going to do anything to help address immigration concerns though?

Yes. It's better not to discuss this issue at all and tell everyone they are racist. It's working well in the UK. God knows what will happen when that weird stuff on Twitter comes out about Keir Starmer and Southport. I am actually really quite concerned.

I’m Spanish. No I don’t want to shake hands (or kisses) to strangers either. And I’m glad that Covid showed us that we can polite and have good manners without any physical contact.

No I'm not saying that. I can't make myself clearer. The first paragraph was answering your weird request for me to say what I think the far right would do.

My second was my point that people have over used the term far right to include reform and conservative voters and it has lost its power. Do we now need caveats? Do we need additional words? Eg "the "real" far right. The "actual " far right. The "far" far right?

The phrase used to mean something in the 80s. Now twats like Lineker have used it inappropriately and it has lost its power.

No I'm not saying that. I can't make myself clearer. The first paragraph was answering your weird request for me to say what I think the far right would do.

My second was my point that people have over used the term far right to include reform and conservative voters and it has lost its power. Do we now need caveats? Do we need additional words? Eg "the "real" far right. The "actual " far right. The "far" far right?

The phrase used to mean something in the 80s. Now twats like Lineker have used it inappropriately and it has lost its power.

But strange that a Muslim man will shake a man's hand in a work context without any problem at all....

Isn't bleak and dystopian a natural result of strict sharia law, which is a fundamental principle of Islam?