Hamas don’t want peace

[Icanthinkformyselfthanks]

A two day ceasefire was offered to them in return for four hostages but they declined. Antony Blinken, the US secretary of state, said Hamas “once again refused to release even a limited number of hostages to secure a ceasefire and relief for the people of Gaza”.
Isreal has now offered a million dollars for each hostage and safe passage out of Gaza for their captors. Hamas have yet to respond.

That’s fine, all wars have victims who need looking after, for someone to dress the wounds. So maybe stick to that element
Yes I'm far more suited to healing rather than the destruction and murder

by your own admission you don’t understand.
No I didn't, I understand very well what I am witnessing

And historically inaccurate. No mention of the Romans at all. Nor that Palestinians DNA shows that they are descendants of the Canaanites.....

What you’re doing is sticking a sticking plaster on things, you’re not looking at solving the cause. All you’re essentially doing is having a knee jerk reaction and running round sticking your thumb in a crack of a very badly built dam with the weight of thousands of years of history pushing against it.

That's because you don’t understand the history of the situation and therefore the cause.

What have said that’s historically inaccurate? Go one. You didn’t mention say the expulsion of Jews from Iberia in 1492

It's a completely clear question. You could even answer yes or no. It's not rhetoric, just a question, I'd be interested in your answer.

You make a couple of very strong points. I think many would agree here.

1. This is not about Hamas.
2. This is about the land grab and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians because otherwise Israel 'does not feel safe'.

You mean rescue like a war with the US? That's kind of suicidal. Or, do you mean like supporting ethnic cleansing?
Or, do you believe Palestinians don't deserve a country of their own though they lived there for many, many generations?

i think the question is only clear once I understand your motivations. And good try trying to limit a complex situation with a closed question. Unless a person isn’t very bright they would realise it’s not a yes/no situation. Although, of course, I realise many people on this thread seem to have reduced themselves to binary thinking which is really rather sad.

Nice try lol! It is not a “land grab” you could argue that happened during the Babylonian exile, although, of course it’s even more complicated.

And yes it is about Hamas. Do you normally have issues with comprehension or do you generally just misrepresent others words.

The territory was arbitrarily split in 1948. Going outside that territory is illegal.

Killing children is inhumane.

Starving people is a disgusting tactic in the 21st century.

Some things are simple.

@Feelingathomenow Re your edit: do tell us a story about 3000 years of Hamas. It's not in my wikipedia

My motivation is really simple, I'm interested in your answer, you can make it as simple or complex as you like. It clearly was a factor along with others but was it a big factor, the biggest single factor perhaps, or a minor factor.

Do you think Israel would exist if there had been no Holocaust?

While what happened 20, 50, 100 years ago is relevant to understanding factors involved in the current situation, things that happened in the past do not constitute legal defences against actions committed in the present.

The occupation and oppression of Palestine did not mean the actions of Hamas and other terrorists were justified. The trauma experienced by Israel did not mean the actions of the Israeli government, IDF and extremists were justified. In both cases, other options existed and people chose these actions. Those people did not and do not lack responsibility for their actions, and they should be held accountable within the established frameworks for doing so.

Never said there was 3000 years of Hamas. I’m sure the Wikipedia comment was flippant although it appears some people get all their information from there! I’m sure you wouldn’t be one of those lol

Well Israel existed a very long time before the Holocaust. I would ask you, without the constant persecution and exile of Jews and the passive acceptance of anti semester throughout millennia do you think the Holocaust would have happened? Without reinstating the Jewish Homeland what do you think would continue to happen to the Jewish people (clue history has a habit of repeating itself)

Do you think the a Palestinian people should be held accountable for their election of Hamas and continued support. Should they be held accountable for not working with outside forces to rid themselves of Hamas?

What do you mean by 'held accountable'?
Should Israelis be 'held accountable' for electing an extrimist government?
Should Germans be 'held accountable' for voting for AfD?

Who has a right to 'hold accountable' people in another country for democratically electing its government? Normally, the consequences follow on their own.

If, on the other hand, by 'held accountable' you mean destroying all the schools, hospitals, homes, shooting children in the head, extrajudicial executions, burning people alive, etc., then very few outside Israel will agree with you.

Well, do the Palestinian people have any responsibility for the rise of Hamas?

Define your concept of 'held accountable', please.

Most reasonable definitions do not cover the level of devastation currently being inflicted upon a population in which the majority of people weren't old enough to have voted in the election that led to Hamas being in power in Gaza. Most definitions of accountability cover responses contained within established frameworks and not those which may well constitute war crimes and genocide.

Again I would point you to history. Look at the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah - particularly the Great Split, regarding the placement of the territories.

No one is saying that children dying isn’t a terrible thing, people starving in eats is a terrible thing, but just going on and on about how terrible Israel is, isn’t going to stop that, they have enough experience of that happening to them that they want to also protect themselves. In fact I think the rampant narrative of poor Palestine, evil Israel is uneducated and will prevent peace. If you want peace, the only thing that will stop those children dying and people starving is to also understand the perspective of Israel. At the moment all the Palestinian waving protestors are having the opposite effect. I pressure you would like to stop this, but I know plenty of ME nations would like nothing better than people to keep fanning those flames, they are after the annihilation of Israel.

To take responsibility for. If the Palestinian people are responsible for the rise to power of Hamas, they are responsible for their destruction too. Maybe something should have been worked out with Israel to get rid of Hamas years ago. Maybe the people of Gaza should have stopped calling for the destruction of Israel.

@Feelingathomenow

Well Israel existed a very long time before the Holocaust.

But not consistently, particularly not since the Roman period.

I would ask you, without the constant persecution and exile of Jews and the passive acceptance of anti semester throughout millennia do you think the Holocaust would have happened?

Good question. I personally doubt it. I don't think the Holocaust was because of historic antisemitism, it was part of it and not a separate thing.

Without reinstating the Jewish Homeland what do you think would continue to happen to the Jewish people

All the evidence would show that they would have become as integrated and valued as any other previously persecuted minority. Antisemitism obviously still exists as does homophobia, Islamophobia, racism etc. I don't see any reason to suggest that it is only the creation of Israel that has prevented another Holocaust.

(clue history has a habit of repeating itself)

You must be talking about the genocide and ethnic cleansing meted on the Palestinians by Israel?

What is your suggestion for peace? What can stop Israel from killing more children and starving ALL Palestinians in Gaza?
Or, do you mean 'once your understand all the millenial trauma you'll support the extermination of Palestinians'?
I honestly don't understand why there are preconditions for stopping the genocide and ethnic cleansing.
For me, the death of children is enough reason to do all to stop the conflict and talk. For you that's not enough. I've run out of arguments. You win.

You mean, this guy's government would have helped people get rid of Hamas? (In a way that didn't involve mass killings, occupation and war crimes...)

You see, what you’re doing is confusing Netanyahu with Israel (a common theme here). Tbh the who world has let down Israel and continues to do so. We should have really stepped up earlier so Israel didn’t need to try and rely on one set of terrorists and Gaza to keep the other regional terrorists at bay. It’s a precarious position for Israel surrounded by people who want to annihilate you. I’m not saying mistakes haven’t been made in dealing with the threat to Israel. Hamas and the othe terrorists threatening Israel should have been wiped out years ago.