Hamas don’t want peace

[Icanthinkformyselfthanks]

A two day ceasefire was offered to them in return for four hostages but they declined. Antony Blinken, the US secretary of state, said Hamas “once again refused to release even a limited number of hostages to secure a ceasefire and relief for the people of Gaza”.
Isreal has now offered a million dollars for each hostage and safe passage out of Gaza for their captors. Hamas have yet to respond.

Snap @Dulra

I think the fact people don’t know enough about the Jewish history of exile problems indicates they have zero ability to understand the state of Israel would it help if we brought it forward to the events of 2500 years ago?

That point is often made, but it would be impossible for any of us living today to right all the wrongs done to all people's over all of time.

You’re the one saying it’s not a war. Why is it not a war?

you see there’s many more people who are claiming their anti semitism is anti Zionism. It’s clear from this thread there’s no interest in the Jewish people. It’s clear from the attacks on Jewish people round the world that the main driver is anti semitism.

Hamas want to be left in charge of Gaza, they didn’t ask for elections or anything like that but to retain control of Gaza and it’s finances, that is the big sticking point. It’s clearly not to the benefit of Gazans to have them in charge but I imagine they don’t care much about that.

I don't need to understand what happened 3000 years ago to understand what is wrong with what is happening in Gaza today. You can confuse us with facts from thousands of years ago but I am concerned with the modern day atrocities and the impact it is having on Palestinian innocent civilians particularly children.

You’re the one saying it’s not a war. Why is it not a war?
I have given you the definition of what a war is . You refuted it but it appears you can't back up your opinion. So why is it a war?
you see there’s many more people who are claiming their anti semitism is anti Zionism.
This sentence doesn't make sense.
It’s clear from the attacks on Jewish people round the world that the main driver is anti semitism.
Any form of racism is abhorrent.

But maybe that’s the point. It’s not about righting wrongs, it’s about understanding where today has come from. You have to understand history to understand the present.

Why do people want to make reparations for Slavery? Why are people so concerned with the contents of the British museum. Why do we remember those who have their lives fighting for their country? Why should we always remember the holocaust - why don’t people want to know the history over millenia that enabled that to happen? Because if we don’t know that we don’t know the history of the holocaust and we think it was isolated rather than an event happening over and over through history - unless we recognise that it will continue to happen over and over. We need to be so so conscious to ensure it really never happens again. Jews having their homeland is so important- it should be a place where no one is allowed to threaten them with yet another exile, no one should be allowed to attack them. No wonder they defend it so staunchly.

Anti semitism is very different to racism.

The sentence makes perfect sense - many people are being anti semitism then denying it by saying it is “just” anti Zionism

A war is armed conflict between different groups within a country/state or between countries/states.

Jews having their homeland is so important- it should be a place where no one is allowed to threaten them with yet another exile, no one should be allowed to attack them. No wonder they defend it so staunchly.

They do defend it staunchly and yes it is crucial Israel remains as a nation state but that doesn't mean they can carry out a genocide in Gaza, why would it?

Unless you understand the history you are commenting on a snap shot.

imagine a child abused since birth, taken away from its parents, shunted around between foster parents, rejected again and again, never felt safe, seen large numbers of their family tortured, kidnapped and murdered. Never had a home. The government come along and give him his own house, it turns out to be his grandfathers house that was stolen from him when the current occupant threw him out and sold him into slavery. The man finally feels safe knowing he always has a safe harbour.

One day as an adult a burglar breaks into his house, rapes his wife and murders his son as and all his neighbours are attacking him telling him to move out. Suddenly he had lost everything again. He turns to the burglar, who is in fact the son of the man who stole his grandfathers house and shoots him. Everyone calls the man who had been abused all his life Evil.

All these scenarios are so tiresome

So what responsibility do all the states who armed Hamas bear in this? Israel are so attacked, the Jewish people are so attacked, you can understand why they need to make sure it stops.

I’m sorry if thinking is tiresome.

Actually yes, focus on living memory. Or living plus 1.

I think it's fair to say for most of us, it is own experiences and those of our families, communities and the people we share our lives with that effect us most deeply.

Currently living memory takes most societies back to pre WW2. I've known people who fought in WW2, I've known a man badly wounded on the Somme. For my grandparents the 1918/19 flu held awful memories, as does being bombed out of and the consequences for my father. Living memory plus 1 takes us back to first hand accounts by people born in the late 19thc.

Ethnic and racial memory matters, massively. But we cannot right off the living in the name of a distant past.

Well let’s go back to the Holocaust then. Why did it happen? What made the Jews a target? this is linked into the thousands of years of exile and persecution the Jews have experienced. So that was an event on living history that can only be understood by understanding the whole history of the Jews. In order for it not to happen again we need to fully understand who my it happened before.

I am commenting on what is currently happening in Gaza. It is their welfare I am concerned about and ensuring their lives are protected. Yes it is a snapshot in time but it is the snapshot I am living through and it is the lives that people are currently living that I am on these threads for. I can join a local history group if I want to delve into the past.

If you really can’t see that to understand and solve problems of the present you have to understand the past and the source of those problems, then there is little hope that you will ever be able to engage with this problem in a meaningful way tbh. So goodnight.

I'm not trying to solve the problem though I would never assume I could begin to do that, there are far more qualified than me for that. I am coming at it from a human rights perspective you don't need to understand what came before to know what's right, wrong and lawful in the present.

I am pretty sure if Netanyahu is ever arrested for war crimes his defense team are not going to go back 3000 years.

You really do need to understand the past to understand the present. We are seeing people calm for yet another iteration of it.

That’s fine, all wars have victims who need looking after, for someone to dress the wounds. So maybe stick to that element rather than commenting blindly on things, by your own admission you don’t understand.

Do you think that in 1947 Israel would have been established if there had been no Holocaust?

Uh, not vote them in in the first place?

Why aren't all the ME countries around Palestine coming to the rescue of the Palestinians?

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. Are you saying that somehow the Holocaust was a positive thing? Because that is pretty abhorrent

Yes, there’s a clear route of Exit into Egypt. But I’m guessing they see it as a useful sacrificial lamb. I think the plan alll along was to fund Hamas to do something so abhorrent that Israel would have no choice but to respond so decisively that the world would turn against Israel, those Palestinian Flag wavers in London are fighting the war for the anti Israel counties for them. The people of Gaza are being used as a means of manipulation. .