Hamas don’t want peace

[Icanthinkformyselfthanks]

A two day ceasefire was offered to them in return for four hostages but they declined. Antony Blinken, the US secretary of state, said Hamas “once again refused to release even a limited number of hostages to secure a ceasefire and relief for the people of Gaza”.
Isreal has now offered a million dollars for each hostage and safe passage out of Gaza for their captors. Hamas have yet to respond.

Thank you for sharing that, @LoremIpsumCici

Thank you. Zionism isn't Judaism but it's been intertwined so that we cannot be critical of the Zionist movement / government as it will be considered Anti Semitic.

Have a read will you @Comedycook

And this is why being anti-zionist is a protected political stance. Except on mumsnet where people try and get your posts banned and deleted for expressing this view.

Ooh why do you think Israel are protective about their space? Might help if there wasn’t so much anti semitism. Might have helped in the Jews hadn’t been exiled from their own lands. After Millennia of persecution the Jewish people need their own land. My expectations of Israel aren’t in the floor. They are far more tolerant than those in the surrounding Arab nations. I look at it this way. As a woman Which type of society would I rather live in, the freedom of somewhere like Israel or the tyranny of somewhere like Iran? Israel is important for the rest of the world too. It is important for the rest of the refer world, especially women we don’t allow women hating tyrants to obliterate the free world.

And this is why imany definitions of anti semitism include anti Zionism. The two are almost always intertwined.

I look at it this way. As a woman Which type of society would I rather live in, the freedom of somewhere like Israel or the tyranny of somewhere like Iran?
Not sure what this has to do with anything. You will be hard pressed finding anyone here that would be supportive of the Iranian regime. You are also privileged to be a woman that would feel safe and protected in Israel but that is definitely not the case for those women living in the West Bank.

It is important for the rest of the refer world, especially women we don’t allow women hating tyrants to obliterate the free world.
What about those women being killed in Gaza though? What about those women who are having their tiny babies killed, not getting access to any maternity care, not getting enough provisions to feed their children. Please don't claim Israel are some kind of saviour of women.

Israel isn't currently occupying, oppressing and otherwise persecuting the Iranian government or military. Israel is currently occupying, oppressing and persecuting Palestinians, occupying the Golan Heights, committing acts in Palestine and Lebanon which would quickly be condemned as war crimes if any other cointry did them, committing genocidal acts (as per multiple experts in relevant fields), and introducing more legislation to discriminate against and deport citizens of the country whose citizenship is deemed lesser due to their faith or bloodline.

This isn't a brave young country defending itself. This is a confirmed nuclear power with a corrupt government and a history of pretty extreme and aggressive behaviour, behaving in aggressive, expansionist, supremacist ways.

As a woman, I actually felt safer in that respect in Palestine than in Israel, where I experienced and witnessed sexual harassment pretty regularly. I wouldn't feel safe in Palestine now, but that's because nobody is safe in Palestine now.

The Palestinians and Lebanese people being targeted and killed right now are not women-hating tyrants attempting to obliterate the free world. There are women-hating tyrants out there, but none of them will be particularly bothered about the deaths and suffering of Palestinians and Lebanese people other than to consider how it affects their investments and popularity ratings.

As numerous people have repeatedly said, no one supports civilians being killed. Yet where wars happen it is almost an inevitable consequence. You have to look at whether a war itself is just. Many civilians died in WW2 in trying to stop the spread of tyranny, should we have just allowed the Nazis to march forward and take over the world? Most would argue no. Whilst the death of civilians was a devastating consequence of that war, most would agree the war was just. Of course no one wants anyone to die.

Hamas committed unspeakable atrocities because they are evil and wanted to spark a war that would increase anti semitism throughout the world, the massive increase of anti semitism across the world is proof the poor of thinking have fallen for it book line and sinker. Look at the happenings in Holland overnight. The many people with anti Semitic tendencies have been emboldened by idiots driving round with Palestinian flags or all the marchers waving Palestinian flags. If you think you can separate anti Zionism and anti semitism for the vast majority of people you’re very much mistaken.

Israel has the right to protect itself, Hamas need destroying, Hezbollah need to be destroyed as does every threat to the State of Israel. The Jewish people have undoubtedly been the most persecuted people throughout history, for millions of years, subject to exile after exile. They should be able to defend their homeland By stirring up anti Zionism you are stirring and legitimatising up anti semitism consciously or not.

I am done with your justifications for genocide, we are just revisiting the same stuff you said pages ago you didn't take on board opinions then so unlikely to now. You don't address the opinions raised in the post you are responding to just come back with ww2 analogies

i have repeated what I said earlier because it was twisted and misrepresented so thought it was worth restating . No I’m not going to alter my opinion in response to anti semitic propaganda. Are you as concerned and vocal about all the women and children dying in all the other wars going on at the moment?

No I’m not going to alter my opinion in response to anti semitic propaganda.
Could you point this out please?

Are you as concerned and vocal about all the women and children dying in all the other wars going on at the moment?
Of course! But why the deflection

By demonising Israel you are stirring up anti semitism These scenes are as a direct result of such rhetoric that is increasingly going up checked.

And it’s not deflection . I’m just keen to see evidence of where you have been so vocal about other wars where women and children have been killed (did you comment in horror on any threads about the atrocities carried out on October 7th?). It’s important to understand your position.

By "demonising", do you mean "expressing concerns and objecting to continuing occupation, oppression, human rights abuses, war crimes and mass killings of innocent men, women and children"? @Feelingathomenow

If people are unable to object to these things, and have to be compelled to be silent and complicit in them, then the struggle against tyranny has already been lost.

If you want to dress up anti semitism as winning the war against tyranny that’s up to you, I will judge accordingly

@Dulra @Scirocco I would ignore @Feelingathomenow simply because they can't differentiate between anti semitism and anti Zionism, which is insulting to the many Jewish people who have been critical of Israel.

@Feelingathomenow you love talking about history and WW2 so why not speak about what Israel has been doing to Palestinians since 1948?! Just conveniently want to skip that part huh

It’s up to you if you want to tell people to ignore me, you, no doubt, would love everyone to ignore anyone with different opinions to yours, it’s rather pathetic.

Nice of you to try and state what I can and cannot understand, but unsurprisingly you’re mistaken. There is an intellectual difference between anti Zionism and anti semitism, but this becomes irrelevant when you look at the intertwining of the two things in the popular mind. Last night in Amsterdam being a prime example. This is why the vast vast majority of Jews feel significantly less safe now. By denying this takes place you are making Jews less safe. Why are you happy to make Jews feel less safe.

Im not skipping any part of history. I know that you would rather talk about the last 60 years, but you cannot even begin to discuss that without understanding the history of millenia? Why do you want to ignore 99.9% of Jewish history and the history of that area in favour of a blink of an eye? Does it not fit your narrative?

If you want to dress up anti semitism as winning the war against tyranny that’s up to you, I will judge accordingly

If you want to dress up genocide as winning the war against tyranny that’s up to you, I will judge accordingly

I am not demonising anyone. I am commenting on what is happening, I will not ignore or turn the other way. I am not responsible for thugs behaviour and I find it extremely offensive that you would suggest people on here are.

It’s up to you whether you find something offensive where no offence was intended. You might want to consider why you find it offensive - are you irrationally offended by what I’m saying or is it because it’s ringing true and you find that fact unsettling at an unconscious level?

Well, I consider standing up for human rights and objecting to the murders and abuse of innocent people to be important, regardless of what nationality/culture/faith is being attacked.

So, feel free to judge. It says more about you than about me.

Yeah this.
And then people ask who the genocide apologists are

I don't need to consider why I find being accused of inciting hooligan behaviour in Amsterdam as offensive, go give your head a wobble and stop equating the behaviour of the Israeli government and IDF with antisemitism.

are you irrationally offended by what I’m saying or is it because it’s ringing true and you find that fact unsettling at an unconscious level?
Seriously 🙄

Ah, you see that rhetoric sounds very laudable. So what are you doing to prevent antisemitism? Have you offered to help out with security at your local Jewish school? They are feeling even less safe now anti semites have been emboldened by the pro Palestinian propaganda. What are you doing to help them? What are you doing about the abuse of women’s rights in many Islamic countries? Where else are you standing up so passionately for human rights, what are you actively doing to protect the Jewish community?

Ok.. talk us through this.

A population has experienced brutal violence and terror at the hands of (mostly) men who seek to kill them. There is evidence of extreme violence, including recorded footage and eyewitness accounts this.

Now, my perspective is that this sort of thing should always be condemned. That these actions are abhorrent whether committed against people of any colour skin, any nationality, any faith, any demographic group.

But it comes across as though you're saying you don't think that should be the case? Why not?

Yes seriously. Deny it or not. Up to you.

I have not accused you specifically of inciting anything. I’ve stated that pro Palestinian propaganda and anti Zionism has emboldened and legitimised anti semitism eg Amsterdam last night. Up to you if you want to identify with either of those positions