How many more will Israel kill?

[Whatsinanamehey]

Nearly a 100 people reportedly killed in the north of Gaza today from a strike in Beit Lahia. Many of the dead are small children with some of the footage the most shocking I have seen. Dead children still trapped under the rubble and countless more injured. How can they continue to kill like this? How can this still be justified as self defence? How can such callous disregard for human life be condoned?

@Lalaloveya this is what I mean….how is it imaginary???? What do you think Hamas was doing on 7 October??? What do think it would do if Israel had no military or defence???

@Dulra are you honestly saying that Hamas is not a existential threat to Israel and the Jewish people?

They have even refused entry to Gaza to a surgeon, according to the Guardian this week. That is just evil.

I don't agree to compare what's happening in Gaza to the Holocaust but to suggest what is happening in Gaza is only bombs dropping on people is to ignore everything else that is happening which is minimising at best. There has been a complete destruction of the infrastructure including schools, hospitals, businesses etc. There have been restrictions in humanitarian aid which contributes to starvation malnutrition and disease which disproportionately impacts children, there is no functioning medical and healthcare system, people are being displaced and forced to move time and again. The social fabric of Gaza has been destroyed.

It baffles me that people don't acknowledge that members of the Israeli government have stated their aim as Nakba. The defence minister literally said that they would eliminate everything and by the looks of it the are sticking to that but people still won't admit that this is far beyond self defence.

Yes they do not have the capability to destroy Israel. Existential threat is a threat to people's existence and survival. So yes there is an existential threat to individual Isreali citizens as we have seen but not to Israel, they don't have the means to destroy Israel. The current Isreali government has expressed intent to destroy Gaza and the capability to do it.

I’m not talking about Israel - I’m talking about Hamas.

it’s just unhelpful to not acknowledge Hamas are and what they want to do. It is a fundamental part of the situation.

Freeing the Palestinian people from Hamas is a fundamental part of resolving the situation. Ignoring that only bolsters the right wing in Israel

Well let's just that Israel had no military defence (which the Palestinian people don't) Hamas would cut off the food, electricity and water, bombard the whole nation with bombs , displace millions of Israelis, destroy the hospitals so no one can be treated and women and children are operated on without anaesthesia, starve the population to point of famine what would you call it? What would you say?

@Dulra so Israel is just meant to not do anything about Hamas until it has even more capability?

And what about the very real threat radical Islam poses to the West - which is also part of the mix.

its just wholly unhelpful to pretend that Hamas are not a threat that need to be dealt with - including a threat to the Palestinian people

so Israel is just meant to not do anything about Hamas until it has even more capability?
I didn't say that did I?

No one is saying Hamas is not a threat but a lot of what Isreal is doing to people in Gaza is not about defeating Hamas it is about destroying Gaza, killing innocent civilians and denying them humanitarian aid, medical assistance and safety

This! People who are trying to say it is not as bad as this or that either generally are unaware of half of the horrors or then choose to ignore it.

bellinisurge absolutely Israel should give back the Palestinian hostages.

It's equally unhelpful to ignore what Israel have pledged, have the capability to do and are actually doing. It's a fundamental part of the situation.

If Hamas have to be dealt with then so do Israel. Their stated aims are the same to destroy the other but only one of them have the capability and only one of them are doing it.

@GhostCicada my point is that in the rhetoric about Israel so often completely ignores the reality of Hamas (including the total failure of Hamas to protect and support the Palestinian people)

much of the rhetoric about Israel now is the same as it was on 8 October

there is a difference between supporting Hamas and its aims and deploring where Israel has taken things in the last year

a lot of the rhetoric here and amongst the ostensibly social justice supporters in the west - whether or not consciously or not - is underscored by a support for Hamas aims in Israel. And ultimately anti the west.

this helps no one - least of all civilian Palestinians

People want Palestinians to have what Israel does. The right to exist. Yes that is what Hamas want too but don't you want Palestine to have the right to exist? So you too support some of the aims of Hamas.

I don't know how anti west comes into it. Both Palestinine and Israel are not the West. Both are really quite far from the West both ideologically and geographically.

Hamas wants to destroy Israel and the Jewish people. It’s not too big a fan of women or gay people either.

They are radical Islamists whose aim is to destroy the west.

Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.

Hamas are horrific for ordinary Palestinians

these things are all relevant to the current conflict.

my point is that they are often simply ignored in the rhetoric which is unhelpful to finding meaningful solutions

if the west withdrew military aid to Israel a horrific situation would become even worse

On reflection I agree with this. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Referring to what is happening in Gaza as bombing civilians is minimizing it. I apologize.
I do still feel there is no equivalence to the Holocaust but I do think I minimalized it and I'm sorry.

Israel want to destroy Palestine, they have said this. Israel have a far right government that enact apartheid and are an occupational force. There is nothing liberal about that. Israel attack UN agencies and ignore UN resolutions. That to me is anti West.

Hamas aren't good guys. Israel aren't good guys. Neither should have our support.

I don't think it's fair to say the role of Hamas has been ignored in discussion about the conflict. It's discussed constantly.

This is a thread about Israel bombing, rounding up and terrorising civilians so that's going to be the topic at hand here.

Worse for who?

Did anyone else read this too? That the IDF bombed the whole building because they thought there was a spotter on top??

Who bombs an entire residential building packed to the brim with civilians including many children because one psycho with a pair of lousy binoculars thought he saw a 'spotter' on top??

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6247nwz73do.amp

Are some of you still going to defend this shit??

Stop arming Israel! It is clear they have no value for Palestinian life! Stop enabling them to continue this genocide!

@Usernamesareboring1 worse for Palestinians Jews arabs and ultimately people living in the west

oh also the poor long suffering people of iran

that does not mean that Netanyahu should not be removed and the hard right in Israel removed from power

@Whatsinanamehey how much value does Hamas give to Palestinian life?