Do You See the Conflict in the Middle East as a Religious War or a Land Grab?

[Oodiks]

Is it a religious war, with Iran, Hezbollah, the Houthis, &c supporting Hamas aims of destroying the 'Zionist Project', aka the Jewish homeland, and Global Jihad, or is it a land grab by Israel?

Only Jews are disbelieved about their fears of obliteration, despite the historical record.

I don't think anyone doubts that Israelis feel that way. I think a lot of people recognise that there is only one set of people actually being 'obliterated' though and they don't really think that fear of 'obliteration' is reason enough to, as the Israeli defence minister said of Israels plans, 'eliminate everything' in Gaza.

In the same vein I don't think anyone would agree that Palestinians fear of their occupiers means that they should get a free pass to 'eliminate everything' in Israel. If Palestinians killed close to 200,000 Israelis(adjusted for Israeli population vs Gaza) in a year, most of them women and children, I think lots of people would be 'fixated' on that too.

Would you be able to tell the difference between an Israeli and a Palestinian in western dress?

Well said, and to add that if they had turned most of Israel into rubble and repeatedly bombed hundreds of schools and hospitals, placed hundreds of thousands under siege and withheld life saving aid. I think alot of people would be fixated on that.

Only Jews are disbelieved about their fears of obliteration
Nonsense.

It was superseded in 2017.
As with any formal document, you don’t repudiate an earlier version, you just issue a new one and it supersedes the old.

@Oodiks who has done most of the killing In the last year? Hezbollah, Hamas or the IDF?

If Hamas and their ilk had their way, the whole of Israel would be rubble, they launch 1000s of indiscriminate rockets into Israel every year!!

”Ifs” are imaginary hypotheticals not reality. Can we just stick to this reality and not go off into some multi-verse rabbit hole?

Territorial expansion under the cloak of religion. The Israelis are already planning what they are going to do with the land in Northern Gaza, once they have cleansed it of Palestinians.

I know that a new charter was unveiled in 2017, but the people of Gaza voted for Hamas in 2006, so voted for the 1988 charter.

The revised charter did not repudiate or revoke the previous one, and the Hamas co-founder has said that it is not a substitute for the original.

And Israel have been defending themselves against that for years with the iron dome. Nobody has a problem with Israel defending themselves. Of course they should. The problem arises when you announce that you are going to 'eliminate everything' and then set about doing so.

Israel have also been land grabbing for years and killing Palestinians in the process and Palestinians don't have a way to defend themselves. That really needs to be fixed. Both 'sides' should be allowed to defend themselves in legitimate ways.

Anything else be it terrorism or 'eliminating everything' needs to be loudly condemned and the perpetrators brought to justice.

You're perfectly aware that not only did Hamas win control of Gaza by murdering Fatah members but half of Palestinians are under 18 and couldn't have voted in 2006.

Okay, just stick to the 1000s of indiscriminate rocket launches each year, including this last year. Is that not evidence of intent?

The problem arises when you announce that you are going to 'eliminate everything' and then set about doing so.

And that's exactly what Hamas have announced and are trying to do. They may lack the capacity, but it's clearly what they are trying to do, and they don't seem to be that concerned about how many civilians get in the way, on either side.

And let's not forget this little nuance...





Wut?

This

Evil man.

No-one's defending Netanyahu here.

Exactly. Like you say both 'sides' of this conflict have said the same thing. Both are clearly very wrong for saying that. Except in reality like you say Hamas don't have the capacity to do it so only one side is actually 'eliminating everything'. And yet some people deny that this is clearly what they are doing, even though they have said it themselves.

Netanyahu is a symptom, not a cause. He's the elected leader because Israeli society put him there. He's not untypical of the political class there and he's certainly nowhere near the most radical figure in the government.

And that's exactly what Hamas have announced and are trying to do.
Trying....

This is the point they have not got the capability to do it. Israel need to defend against it though of course they do BUT that is not what they are doing, they have gone way beyond defence they are destroying Gaza.
Do you honestly believe Hamas would get away with doing to Israel what the Israeli government and IDF are doing in Gaza without the international community intervening and supporting Israel militarily to stop them?

I think it's a land grab/power show at the political level, but that the fighters on the ground, for both sides, are being manipulated by their religion and told they are doing gods work.