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Conflict in the Middle East

Why do Palestinian refugees have a separate refugee agency?

318 replies

Oodiks · 19/10/2024 20:49

Why is it that all other refugees come under the protection of the UNCHR and are resettled in another country if they cannot return home, but UNWRA keeps Palestinians in camps all over the Middle East and they are never offered the chance to resettle in their host countries?

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Alwayslookonthe · 22/10/2024 21:35

Lalaloveya · 22/10/2024 21:34

Interesting how invested some posters are in arguing for the removal of rights from Palestinians.

They have rights, just not the ‘right of return’.

Alwayslookonthe · 22/10/2024 21:37

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 21:35

You should probably at least do a surface read on the right of return before posting so confidently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_194

The Wiki page. Any particular resolution, convention you want to quote first?

None of these give the Palestinians a ‘right to return’ to Israel.

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 21:38

Lalaloveya · 22/10/2024 21:34

Interesting how invested some posters are in arguing for the removal of rights from Palestinians.

I just don't understand why Palestinian refugees have 'rights' that other refugees do not and feel concerned that their 'right' to pass their refugee status down through the generations perpetuates the crisis.

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SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 21:39

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 21:31

I suspect you'd believe the fox was 'accurate' in his assessment of the chickens' safety and not simply defending his own existence as their guardian.

You fundamentally misunderstand what happens when government entities absorb other government entities. There is no mass sacking of all directors and employees. On a Monday, they would simply destroy their employee ID badges that say UNWRA and put on a new ID badge that says UNHCR. Their email addresses would be switched to [email protected] instead of [email protected].

He has no personal motive to argue for UNRWA to stay in existence, because either way he’d still have the same job doing the same things.

Lalaloveya · 22/10/2024 21:40

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 21:38

I just don't understand why Palestinian refugees have 'rights' that other refugees do not and feel concerned that their 'right' to pass their refugee status down through the generations perpetuates the crisis.

In the context that Israel has killed a lot of UNWRA workers, and is trying to get rid of the organisation it comes across as quite sinister, given what's happening in Gaza.

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 21:40

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 21:38

I just don't understand why Palestinian refugees have 'rights' that other refugees do not and feel concerned that their 'right' to pass their refugee status down through the generations perpetuates the crisis.

They don’t though. I posted a full explainer stating how they have the same rights as all other refugees under UNHCR. What you are saying is a myth.

MissyB1 · 22/10/2024 21:41

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 21:38

I just don't understand why Palestinian refugees have 'rights' that other refugees do not and feel concerned that their 'right' to pass their refugee status down through the generations perpetuates the crisis.

Even if that's true, how is it affecting you? Is it a problem to you for some particular reason?

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 21:42

Lalaloveya · 22/10/2024 21:40

In the context that Israel has killed a lot of UNWRA workers, and is trying to get rid of the organisation it comes across as quite sinister, given what's happening in Gaza.

You understand that a lot of UNWRA workers are also working for Hamas, right?

What's sinister about wishing that Palestinian refugees, like all others, are given the chance to resettle elsewhere?

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Oodiks · 22/10/2024 21:42

MissyB1 · 22/10/2024 21:41

Even if that's true, how is it affecting you? Is it a problem to you for some particular reason?

Oh, right, sorry, I'm not a Palestinian refugee, why should I care?

wtf?

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Alwayslookonthe · 22/10/2024 21:43

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 21:39

You fundamentally misunderstand what happens when government entities absorb other government entities. There is no mass sacking of all directors and employees. On a Monday, they would simply destroy their employee ID badges that say UNWRA and put on a new ID badge that says UNHCR. Their email addresses would be switched to [email protected] instead of [email protected].

He has no personal motive to argue for UNRWA to stay in existence, because either way he’d still have the same job doing the same things.

Edited

Again you are incorrect.
UNHCR do not employ refugees.

Who are UNRWA?
UNRWA is an organisation of Palestinians for Palestinians. It is the Palestinians’ single biggest employer after the Palestinian Authority. UNRWA with the exception of a very thin stratum at the top (who ask countries for money) is a thoroughly Palestinian organisation. Teachers in UNRWA schools are primarily registered refugees as are the staff in UNRWA hospitals and welfare bureaus. UNRWA prides itself on employing 30,000 Palestinian refugees and a small number of International staff. It employs 22,000 teachers, each enjoying tenure, pension, and retirement rights. It’s budget is $1.2 billion. It is a temporary agency (still), and does not receive a regular budget from the UN, except for a small budget for its international management.

For comparison’s sake: in 2019 UNHCR dealt with approximately 20 million refugees using a staff of nearly 17,000 employees, who are not refugees but agency personnel. UNRWA registered 5.9 million refugees serviced by a staff of 30,000 nearly all of whom are Palestinian. This means that the ratio of staff to registered refugees at UNRWA is seven times higher than in UNHCR.

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 21:43

Alwayslookonthe · 22/10/2024 21:37

The Wiki page. Any particular resolution, convention you want to quote first?

None of these give the Palestinians a ‘right to return’ to Israel.

Follow the link, it states the UN resolutions that have enshrined the right of return for Palestinians. Which btw have been reaffirmed by the UN every year since 1948.

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 21:45

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 21:39

You fundamentally misunderstand what happens when government entities absorb other government entities. There is no mass sacking of all directors and employees. On a Monday, they would simply destroy their employee ID badges that say UNWRA and put on a new ID badge that says UNHCR. Their email addresses would be switched to [email protected] instead of [email protected].

He has no personal motive to argue for UNRWA to stay in existence, because either way he’d still have the same job doing the same things.

Edited

So you do agree that he is a fox in charge of chickens 😆

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SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 21:47

Alwayslookonthe · 22/10/2024 21:43

Again you are incorrect.
UNHCR do not employ refugees.

Who are UNRWA?
UNRWA is an organisation of Palestinians for Palestinians. It is the Palestinians’ single biggest employer after the Palestinian Authority. UNRWA with the exception of a very thin stratum at the top (who ask countries for money) is a thoroughly Palestinian organisation. Teachers in UNRWA schools are primarily registered refugees as are the staff in UNRWA hospitals and welfare bureaus. UNRWA prides itself on employing 30,000 Palestinian refugees and a small number of International staff. It employs 22,000 teachers, each enjoying tenure, pension, and retirement rights. It’s budget is $1.2 billion. It is a temporary agency (still), and does not receive a regular budget from the UN, except for a small budget for its international management.

For comparison’s sake: in 2019 UNHCR dealt with approximately 20 million refugees using a staff of nearly 17,000 employees, who are not refugees but agency personnel. UNRWA registered 5.9 million refugees serviced by a staff of 30,000 nearly all of whom are Palestinian. This means that the ratio of staff to registered refugees at UNRWA is seven times higher than in UNHCR.

So fucking what? There isn’t any regulation that forbids having a refugee as an employee. And you were taking about the UN staff member, Chris Gunness, who wrote the explainer being a “fox” having some sort of ulterior motive to keep UNRWA going. He is a British UN employee.

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 21:48

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 21:45

So you do agree that he is a fox in charge of chickens 😆

No, I do not.

Dulra · 22/10/2024 21:49

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 21:42

You understand that a lot of UNWRA workers are also working for Hamas, right?

What's sinister about wishing that Palestinian refugees, like all others, are given the chance to resettle elsewhere?

You understand that a lot of UNWRA workers are also working for Hamas, right?
No they're not, this has not been proven. The 6 of 7 that Israel claimed were have been dismissed and are being investigated. You do know Israel vets every UNWRA employee?

Lalaloveya · 22/10/2024 21:49

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 21:42

You understand that a lot of UNWRA workers are also working for Hamas, right?

What's sinister about wishing that Palestinian refugees, like all others, are given the chance to resettle elsewhere?

What do you mean by that? Working for the entity running Gaza? Or are you saying a lot of them are terrorists?

I don't buy that your intentions are as pure as you're letting on, but that's just my opinion.

Dulra · 22/10/2024 21:50

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 21:47

So fucking what? There isn’t any regulation that forbids having a refugee as an employee. And you were taking about the UN staff member, Chris Gunness, who wrote the explainer being a “fox” having some sort of ulterior motive to keep UNRWA going. He is a British UN employee.

So fucking what? There isn’t any regulation that forbids having a refugee as an employee
Yes of course their isn't my organisation employs refugees

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 21:50

You understand that a lot of UNWRA workers are also working for Hamas, right?

Wrong. No evidence has ever been provided to substantiate this politically motivated allegation.

Alwayslookonthe · 22/10/2024 21:51

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 21:43

Follow the link, it states the UN resolutions that have enshrined the right of return for Palestinians. Which btw have been reaffirmed by the UN every year since 1948.

To be absolutely clear, there is no International law that requires Israel to allow Palestinian refugees and their descendants to return to Israel. No treaties or binding UN resolutions were violated by Israel's expulsion (some fled) of Palestinians during the 1948 conflict and none provide a right to return for Palestinian refugees.

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 21:58

Alwayslookonthe · 22/10/2024 21:51

To be absolutely clear, there is no International law that requires Israel to allow Palestinian refugees and their descendants to return to Israel. No treaties or binding UN resolutions were violated by Israel's expulsion (some fled) of Palestinians during the 1948 conflict and none provide a right to return for Palestinian refugees.

Repeating myths from propaganda doesn’t make them true. You are 100% incorrect.

UN resolutions are international agreements, the UN charters, conventions and UNSC resolutions are legally binding international agreements.

Alwayslookonthe · 22/10/2024 22:00

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 21:58

Repeating myths from propaganda doesn’t make them true. You are 100% incorrect.

UN resolutions are international agreements, the UN charters, conventions and UNSC resolutions are legally binding international agreements.

Edited

Name one that gives them the ‘right to return’.

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 22:03

Alwayslookonthe · 22/10/2024 22:00

Name one that gives them the ‘right to return’.

I linked you to them!
Tell me, what is the point of posting links for you to read that answer your questions and then you ignore the link or pretend they don’t say what they say. And then five posts later you ask the same question or say the same myths that I have already debunked.

This is like shouting into the wind.

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 22:04

I’m out. Other Mumsnetters at least will read the links and sources and I am sure will see exactly what you have been up to here.

Alwayslookonthe · 22/10/2024 22:08

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 22:03

I linked you to them!
Tell me, what is the point of posting links for you to read that answer your questions and then you ignore the link or pretend they don’t say what they say. And then five posts later you ask the same question or say the same myths that I have already debunked.

This is like shouting into the wind.

Because I have read them all and none of them give the Palestinians ‘the right to return’.
Perhaps you don’t feel confident in choosing one to discuss, which is okay. However, please don’t send me a link and ask me to read them. I have. I can confidently say that there is no International law that requires Israel to allow Palestinians and their descendants to return to Israel.

Kindatired · 22/10/2024 22:26

What's sinister about wishing that Palestinian refugees, like all others, are given the chance to resettle elsewhere?
Voluntary resettlement is acceptable but forced displacement of a population is a feature of genocide. It seems from your posts that you would like them to integrate locally and hand over the Palestinian Territories to the Israelis. But maybe we’re misinterpreting your posts.

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