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Conflict in the Middle East

Why do Palestinian refugees have a separate refugee agency?

318 replies

Oodiks · 19/10/2024 20:49

Why is it that all other refugees come under the protection of the UNCHR and are resettled in another country if they cannot return home, but UNWRA keeps Palestinians in camps all over the Middle East and they are never offered the chance to resettle in their host countries?

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username3678 · 20/10/2024 01:53

Oodiks · 20/10/2024 01:49

Do you really think that's feasible? Why would Israel give up that much land at this point? Who would be running Palestine?

The status quo is obviously not feasible. The refugees should be allowed to return home and there isn't room due to stolen land. Palestine should initially be run by the UN in order to facilitate the rebuilding and then hold elections.

Oodiks · 20/10/2024 02:00

username3678 · 20/10/2024 01:53

The status quo is obviously not feasible. The refugees should be allowed to return home and there isn't room due to stolen land. Palestine should initially be run by the UN in order to facilitate the rebuilding and then hold elections.

I guess you are unbothered by the sheer numbers of people involved due to UNWRA counting any and all descendants of male Palestinians as refugees?

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username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:09

Oodiks · 20/10/2024 02:00

I guess you are unbothered by the sheer numbers of people involved due to UNWRA counting any and all descendants of male Palestinians as refugees?

What's your solution to the Palestinian refugees?

Alwayslookonthe · 20/10/2024 02:09

username3678 · 20/10/2024 01:10

They were set up specifically to deal with the refugees of the Nakba. It was meant to be temporary until a solution was found but none has been found. They weren't allowed to return and are still waiting to go home even though they have right of return.

Unlike the UNHCR, they don't have a political mandate, they only have a humanitarian one which is to assist the refugees.

There are refugees in Gaza because they were forced off their land and have nowhere to go under the occupation.

Palestinians do NOT have a ‘right’ to return.

Throughout the world in the 1940s and 1950s (when the Palestinians became refugees) millions and millions of refugees were rehabilitated in the countries that had given them shelter.

600,000 Chineses fled to Hong Kong in 1949
It was tough, it was tragic, but they moved on.

14 million Hindu and Muslim refugees found shelter in India and Pakistan, respectively, following partition of the Indian subcontinent in 1947.
It was tough, it was tragic, but they moved on.

3.1 million fled North Korea to South Korea in the 1950-1953 conflict.
It was tough, it was tragic, but they moved on.

800,000 Jews had to flee Arab countries of Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia.
It was tough, it was tragic but they moved on.

10 million ethnic Germans were brutally expelled from Eastern Europe when the borders were redrawn, not because they were Nazis, just because they belonged to the ethnic group that had lost the war. They had lived there for centuries.
These ethnic German refugees also wanted to return to their birthplaces. They did not want to return under foreign rule meaning they wanted Germany to recapture these territories forcefully.
All of Germany’s political leaders paid lip service to the refugee’s demands and public ally supported them but, in reality, did nothing to advance them. Germany focussed on the refugee’s full integration into Germany and pursued wealth redistribution to achieve this. By the early 1960s, the voices demanding a return had all but disappeared.
The German Government realised that to pursue the refugee’s desire to return to their birthplace would have resulted in further conflict and war.
It was tough, it was tragic, but they moved on.

700,000 Palestinians were expelled from the Mandate in 1948.
It was tough, it was tragic but it is time to MOVE ON.

Oodiks · 20/10/2024 02:13

username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:09

What's your solution to the Palestinian refugees?

Resettlement in host countries like the millions of refugees referred to by @Alwayslookonthe above.

Why not?

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Oodiks · 20/10/2024 02:14

Thank you @Alwayslookonthe

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username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:16

@Alwayslookonthe

The Palestinians DO have a right to return under Resolution 194, 1948.

Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.

Resolution 3236, passed on 22 November 1974, declared the right of return to be an "inalienable right".

username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:17

Oodiks · 20/10/2024 02:13

Resettlement in host countries like the millions of refugees referred to by @Alwayslookonthe above.

Why not?

Because their home is Palestine and they belong there. The countries with refugee camps don't want to take them.

Oodiks · 20/10/2024 02:18

username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:16

@Alwayslookonthe

The Palestinians DO have a right to return under Resolution 194, 1948.

Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.

Resolution 3236, passed on 22 November 1974, declared the right of return to be an "inalienable right".

It's unfortunate that the majority of Palestinians apparently do not want to 'live at peace with their neighbours', or they wouldn't support Hamas.

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Oodiks · 20/10/2024 02:19

username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:17

Because their home is Palestine and they belong there. The countries with refugee camps don't want to take them.

Why not?

What reason except to perpetuate and exacerbate the existing situation?

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Alwayslookonthe · 20/10/2024 02:21

username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:16

@Alwayslookonthe

The Palestinians DO have a right to return under Resolution 194, 1948.

Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.

Resolution 3236, passed on 22 November 1974, declared the right of return to be an "inalienable right".

No they DO NOT have a ‘right’ to return.
The view that resolution 194 created a Palestinian right of return mischaracterises the resolution’s legal status. The UN General Assembly’s powers are limited, it cannot confer legal or binding rights. Therefore, the resolution is purely advisory it does not and cannot create a ‘right’ to anything including ‘return’.
Same goes for 3236.

username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:21

Oodiks · 20/10/2024 02:18

It's unfortunate that the majority of Palestinians apparently do not want to 'live at peace with their neighbours', or they wouldn't support Hamas.

The majority of Palestinians don't support Hamas. Please don't present your poll again which purports to speak for millions of people.

Alwayslookonthe · 20/10/2024 02:28

username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:21

The majority of Palestinians don't support Hamas. Please don't present your poll again which purports to speak for millions of people.

Where is your evidence that the majority of Gazans don’t support Hamas?

username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:29

Alwayslookonthe · 20/10/2024 02:28

Where is your evidence that the majority of Gazans don’t support Hamas?

I'll see yours first.

Alwayslookonthe · 20/10/2024 02:33

username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:29

I'll see yours first.

I haven’t stated Gazans do or don’t support Hamas. You have. Therefore, what evidence are you basing this on?

username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:33

Alwayslookonthe · 20/10/2024 02:21

No they DO NOT have a ‘right’ to return.
The view that resolution 194 created a Palestinian right of return mischaracterises the resolution’s legal status. The UN General Assembly’s powers are limited, it cannot confer legal or binding rights. Therefore, the resolution is purely advisory it does not and cannot create a ‘right’ to anything including ‘return’.
Same goes for 3236.

So what you're saying is Resolution 181 was purely advisory and not legally binding.

Alwayslookonthe · 20/10/2024 02:38

username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:33

So what you're saying is Resolution 181 was purely advisory and not legally binding.

Yes, it was a proposed solution to a conflict from the GA. If 181 had been accepted by both parties then it would be binding. However, as it was rejected by the Arabs it is not legally binding.

Alwayslookonthe · 20/10/2024 02:42

In short, the Palestinians do NOT possess a ‘right’ to return.

For too long, Palestinian groups have been nourished, indulged and sustained by their enablers to keep fighting for an annihilationist cause, rather than moving on, and creating prosperous lives for themselves.

username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:48

Alwayslookonthe · 20/10/2024 02:42

In short, the Palestinians do NOT possess a ‘right’ to return.

For too long, Palestinian groups have been nourished, indulged and sustained by their enablers to keep fighting for an annihilationist cause, rather than moving on, and creating prosperous lives for themselves.

All refugees have a right to return, it's now customary law.

It's in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the Refugee Convention.

Cremacreme · 20/10/2024 02:54

All refugees have a right to return, it's now customary law.

Who enforcers it?

If some of the Hong Kongers who have come to the UK go back to HK who looks out for their safety?

Alwayslookonthe · 20/10/2024 02:59

username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:48

All refugees have a right to return, it's now customary law.

It's in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the Refugee Convention.

Non binding and non legal I’m afraid.
Palestinians were not then and are not today citizens of Israel.

You are going to have to point out specific articles within this bunch of declarations and conventions, where you think it gives them have a ‘right’ to return.

In short Palestinians do NOT possess a right to return.

Oodiks · 20/10/2024 02:59

username3678 · 20/10/2024 02:48

All refugees have a right to return, it's now customary law.

It's in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the Refugee Convention.

So, theoretically, you'd support the right of the Jews who were kicked out of Arab countries to go back to those countries as full citizens?

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Alwayslookonthe · 20/10/2024 03:00

@username3678
Any update on your evidence that the majority of Gazans don’t support Hamas?

username3678 · 20/10/2024 03:08

Cremacreme · 20/10/2024 02:54

All refugees have a right to return, it's now customary law.

Who enforcers it?

If some of the Hong Kongers who have come to the UK go back to HK who looks out for their safety?

It's international law which is enforced by the ICC and ICJ as well as enshrined in various State laws.

They have a right to return home and it's their choice if they want to go back into unsafe conditions.

Alwayslookonthe · 20/10/2024 03:27

username3678 · 20/10/2024 03:08

It's international law which is enforced by the ICC and ICJ as well as enshrined in various State laws.

They have a right to return home and it's their choice if they want to go back into unsafe conditions.

I think you need to take a detailed look at the Conventions you are trying to use to back up the mythical ‘right to return’.
Definately not enshrined!

Refugee status in itself does not entail a right to return to ones original country.

The major treaty on refugees, the Refugee Convention (1951) and its 1967 UN protocol relating to the status of refugees does not even address the issue of repatriation.
It is primarily concerned with preventing the forced return of refugees to their state of origin and guaranteeing their rights in the state to which they fled.
The convention promised its signatories the right to decide which refugees, if any, would be allowed to settle in their territories.

Refugee status in itself does not entail a right to return to ones original country.

The major treaty on refugees, the Refugee Convention (1951) and its 1967 UN protocol relating to the status of refugees does not even address the issue of repatriation.
It is primarily concerned with preventing the forced return of refugees to their state of origin and guaranteeing their rights in the state to which they fled.
The convention promised its signatories the right to decide which refugees, if any, would be allowed to settle in their territories.

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