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Conflict in the Middle East

Why do Palestinian refugees have a separate refugee agency?

318 replies

Oodiks · 19/10/2024 20:49

Why is it that all other refugees come under the protection of the UNCHR and are resettled in another country if they cannot return home, but UNWRA keeps Palestinians in camps all over the Middle East and they are never offered the chance to resettle in their host countries?

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Oodiks · 23/10/2024 17:55

MissyB1 · 23/10/2024 17:36

Do yiu have any comment on the future for their education now? Certainly not looking "cool" is it?

What's cool is your further deflection.

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MissyB1 · 23/10/2024 18:16

SharonEllis · 23/10/2024 17:35

@MissyB1 and that really is being overdramatic. However difficult things are and will be, the majority of people are NOT dead or missing. How does it help to say things like that?

You think talking about the amount of civilians that are dead or missing (and I did also say missing if you were reading properly) is "dramatic"?? wow! How high would you you like the death rate to be before you acknowledge the devastatingly high numbers? Now please remember (and this is important!!) the actual number cannot even be counted yet, because so many bodies are still under rubble, and because many "survivors" may well yet die of their injuries. Do not embarrass yourself by being flippant about the amount of innocent civilians (mostly women and children) killed by Israel. It is dramatic, dramatic in the most horrific way.

SharonEllis · 23/10/2024 18:20

MissyB1 · 23/10/2024 18:16

You think talking about the amount of civilians that are dead or missing (and I did also say missing if you were reading properly) is "dramatic"?? wow! How high would you you like the death rate to be before you acknowledge the devastatingly high numbers? Now please remember (and this is important!!) the actual number cannot even be counted yet, because so many bodies are still under rubble, and because many "survivors" may well yet die of their injuries. Do not embarrass yourself by being flippant about the amount of innocent civilians (mostly women and children) killed by Israel. It is dramatic, dramatic in the most horrific way.

I'm not being flippant. If anything I think its flippant & disrespectful to exaggerate to such an extreme degree for political impact. Facts are not flippant.

Auvergne63 · 23/10/2024 18:44

SharonEllis · 23/10/2024 18:20

I'm not being flippant. If anything I think its flippant & disrespectful to exaggerate to such an extreme degree for political impact. Facts are not flippant.

Who is exaggerating? To be honest, the number will be higher as no one knows how many are under the rubble, how many will die of starvation, how many will die because of lack of medication for diabetes/ asthma/cancer, how many will die of their injuries/ how many will die in future bombings and the list goes on.
All these are facts. I haven't included the deaths due to heavy metal and asbestos or in childbirth.
What I find extremely disrespectful and unsavoury is the minimisation of Palestinian deaths.

MagicChocolate · 23/10/2024 18:47

It’s not about minimising the deaths but giving the credit where it’s due - the Palestinian leaders, Hamas who use their own people as shields and then inflate the numbers.

Dulra · 23/10/2024 18:55

MagicChocolate · 23/10/2024 18:47

It’s not about minimising the deaths but giving the credit where it’s due - the Palestinian leaders, Hamas who use their own people as shields and then inflate the numbers.

but giving the credit where it’s due
What does this mean?

There's enough evidence now to suggest the numbers are under reported due to difficulty with identifying bodies and many missing not yet confirmed dead. I thought we'd moved on from this misinformation

Auvergne63 · 23/10/2024 19:00

MagicChocolate · 23/10/2024 18:47

It’s not about minimising the deaths but giving the credit where it’s due - the Palestinian leaders, Hamas who use their own people as shields and then inflate the numbers.

Credit where it is due? You give credit for something well done. What a very strange phrase to use in this context. Do you think that so many dead is a positive thing?
How the death toll in Gaza is recorded and why experts say it is likely an undercount - ABC News

Amid gruesome hospital scenes, the true death toll in Gaza might be much higher than we think

The reality on the ground in Gaza makes assessing the true death toll an enormous challenge, but despite that, experts say it is not only recorded honestly, but also likely an under-count. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-19/gaza-death-toll-numbers-killed-israel-strikes-buried-body-parts/104259532

Oodiks · 23/10/2024 19:09

TheABC · 23/10/2024 17:46

I was under the impression that UNRWA helped the Gazan Palestinians with education, food schemes for the poor and health care. Things that we would normally expect from a government.

Now, show me where Hamas has acted like a government. Did they sort out escorts for the food trucks, open up tunnels for civilians to shelter from bombs or set up health clinics when the hospitals were destroyed?

They certainly didn't have any problems stockpiling guns, rockets and bullets.

FWIW, I want the Palestinians to have peace, dignity and autonomy. They're not getting it under Hamas or Israel.

Perhaps if Gaza had a more moderate party in power that didn't encourage its citizens to become martyrs for their cause, relations with Israel would be easier and the Palestinians living there would have a better quality of life with more freedom than they have now.

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Lalaloveya · 23/10/2024 19:13

Oodiks · 23/10/2024 19:09

Perhaps if Gaza had a more moderate party in power that didn't encourage its citizens to become martyrs for their cause, relations with Israel would be easier and the Palestinians living there would have a better quality of life with more freedom than they have now.

More moderate/competent regimes in both Palestine and Israel is needed, definitely. I'd imagine autonomy, not living under blockade/getting bombed to bits (Gaza) or living under constant ethnic cleansing (West Bank) would also help relations.

Lalaloveya · 23/10/2024 19:32

Another UNWRA worker murdered today. He was driving a UN marked truck. His brother was killed too. 20 people killed today that we know of in northern Gaza.

SharonEllis · 23/10/2024 19:46

Of course its exaggerating to say 'most' are dead or missing. The population of Gaza before the war was over 2 million people. It depends on your definition of 'most' but it usually means a vast majority, say around 90%. Its nowhere near accurate. Current figures are in the low %. She was talking about the future (which still won't be 90%). She was talking present tense. And its not 'minimising' to say so.

Lalaloveya · 23/10/2024 19:58

The fact remains that the entire education system in Gaza has been destroyed.

SharonEllis · 23/10/2024 20:02

Just to be clear @Auvergne63 is talking about the future @MissyB1 talking present.

Lolapusht · 25/10/2024 15:39

UNRWA confirms one of its employees participated in 7/10

This man led the attack on the bus shelter where Hersh had his arm blown off before being kidnapped.

PeasfullPerson · 25/10/2024 18:27

SharonEllis · 23/10/2024 17:35

@MissyB1 and that really is being overdramatic. However difficult things are and will be, the majority of people are NOT dead or missing. How does it help to say things like that?

But the majority of land in Gaza has been decimated, and the majority of people in Gaza have been internally displaced.

PeasfullPerson · 25/10/2024 18:33

Perhaps I should rephrase that, to say the majority of life supporting land and structures.

And yes, while the majority of people in Gaza are still alive, I can’t imagine there isn’t a single person who hasn’t been touched by the death of a loved one.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/about-60-of-gaza-s-buildings-are-destroyed-setting-development-back-decades-report/ar-AA1sOoY1

MSN

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/about-60-of-gaza-s-buildings-are-destroyed-setting-development-back-decades-report/ar-AA1sOoY1

PeasfullPerson · 25/10/2024 18:39

This is a soul destroying read.

And then people want to ask ordinary people in Gaza what they will do to ensure peace! We shouldn’t be asking anything of them right now, we should first be helping them to live.

‘Israeli attacks over the past year have left most of Gaza uninhabitable, exacerbating concerns that displacement will be permanent. According to the UN, 87 percent of Gaza’s housing units and schools have been damaged or destroyed, as have 68 percent of its cropland, 80 percent of commercial facilities, and 68 percent of the road network. The water and energy infrastructure are in ruins, and all universities have been destroyed.
Evacuation orders now cover 85 percent of the Gaza Strip. About 1.9 million of Gaza’s 2.2 million Palestinians have been displaced, sheltering in relatives’ homes, public buildings, tents, and greenhouses and under tarpaulins. The rainy season begins this month.’

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/10/18/north-gaza-between-death-and-displacement

People flee to the southern Gaza Strip along Salah al-Din Street, November 18, 2023.

North Gaza: Between Death and Displacement

Forced displacement can amount to a war crime. So can using starvation as a weapon of war. Since October 1 the Israeli military has ordered some 400,000 people in northern Gaza to leave their homes and blocked aid from reaching them—risking both crimes...

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/10/18/north-gaza-between-death-and-displacement

herecomesautumn · 25/10/2024 22:13

Lolapusht · 25/10/2024 15:39

UNRWA confirms one of its employees participated in 7/10

This man led the attack on the bus shelter where Hersh had his arm blown off before being kidnapped.

Hmmm

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