Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

Hamas leader dead surely the wat between Israel and Gaza and Lebanon must stop now

172 replies

Hunnymonster1 · 17/10/2024 22:15

War not wat can’t edit title oops
Surely Israel have achieved their goal of bringing down the leader of hamas? When I heard that he was dead my first thoughts were that must mean a ceasefire can be done now surely. Or do you think the prime minister of Israel knows his number is up politically soon that’s why he won’t stop the war? Plus we all know a cease fire has to take both sides and just because this leader is dead doesn’t mean another won’t step up
so maybe I am being niave in my point of view

OP posts:
Dulra · 30/10/2024 08:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

15 years to release the hostages? Maybe read the post I was replying to before jumping on me.

Seems to me Gazans had two reasonable choices - to emigrate or to construct a decent life for themselves there.
Seriously choice to emigrate? Or construct a decent life in an occupied territory?

Scirocco · 30/10/2024 09:37

It's a bit difficult to create a healthy and well-developed society when it gets periodically bombed and access to even basic supplies is restricted by an occupying force.

Do you want to catch fish off the coast of your own land, in waters that are meant to belong to your country? Too bad. If you go too far your boat gets blown up or you get shot. (And the definition of 'too far' is really determined by the person firing the weapon).

Do you want to walk on your own land, but happen to live within sight of the border? Better be careful - if you get too close for the liking of whoever's monitoring that bit of land, you'll get a bullet in a knee or in your head. Oh, and if your small child happens to stray into that space, their age is no protection from a sniper's bullet.

When you're pregnant, would you like your doctor to have access to the necessary medical and surgical supplies to ensure your baby can be delivered safely and receive any necessary medical care? Well, that could be tricky - a lot of those supplies are classed as 'potential dual use' and get turned away at crossing points.

Would you like a sleeping bag? Well, you can't have a green one because green is a military colour so gets rejected at the crossing points. (Seriously, lists of banned items have included green sleeping bags, children's crayons, and similar items)

Would you like to leave the area yourself, maybe to visit loved ones elsewhere? Well, that's going to be tricky in terms of organising approvals, unpleasant in terms of the sexual harassment most women experienced at crossing points, and risky because there's no way to ensure you won't be abducted, arrested or denied re-entry.

Etc.

But clearly people just haven't been trying hard enough.

Auvergne63 · 30/10/2024 11:40

Oodiks · 28/10/2024 22:52

If the majority of Palestinians in Gaza were against Hamas why can't they revolt against them, free the hostages, and work towards peace?

Spoken as someone who has no understanding of what is really happening in Gaza. Maybe they should do that in between dodging bombs, finding food and water or burying their children.
They say ignorance is a bliss...

MsAmerica · 31/10/2024 23:06

Dulra · 30/10/2024 08:48

15 years to release the hostages? Maybe read the post I was replying to before jumping on me.

Seems to me Gazans had two reasonable choices - to emigrate or to construct a decent life for themselves there.
Seriously choice to emigrate? Or construct a decent life in an occupied territory?

No, 15 years to decide to fight Hamas instead of Israel, 15 years to decide they want to install leaders who would be concerned with the population, not just with war.

Dariamar · 31/10/2024 23:53

MsAmerica · 31/10/2024 23:06

No, 15 years to decide to fight Hamas instead of Israel, 15 years to decide they want to install leaders who would be concerned with the population, not just with war.

This is what will be the main problem to ensuring peace. If you have been taught in (UNRWA) schools plus also sent to terrorist training camps from 7/8yo that Jewish people are evil and must be killed...seeing people get paid because their family member was " martyred" killing Jewish people...it's a lot to overcome that mindset. And now they will just see the horror that has been Israel's response and their beliefs will be reinforced. De-radicalisation of the population will have to be a major part of any hope towards a 2 state solutions. I think it can happen with a new secular government but Israel will also have to feel "safe"...6 Israeli's were killed today by Hezbollah rockets.. Israel have the Iron Dome but it's not infallible and having hundreds of rockets fired at your citizens daily isn't sustainable...so Hamas and Hezbollah have to be taken out.

Scirocco · 01/11/2024 00:07

Ordinary people who tried to fight Hamas had rather dramatically shortened life expectancies. They were abandoned to Hamas, who were funded and enabled by external powers who considered them useful.

Oodiks · 01/11/2024 00:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Scirocco · 01/11/2024 00:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Perhaps if people stopped oppressing them, subjecting them to occupation, killing and torturing them, and mocking/celebrating their deaths across media platforms, that might help go some way towards convincing people that there might be good intentions in there somewhere. As it stands, though, Israeli forces are killing, torturing and traumatising innocent people, while supporters and people in government are gleefully cheering for pro-genocide and pro-annexation slogans. You don't liberate a population by doing this - this is the destruction of Palestine, not its liberation.

Oodiks · 01/11/2024 00:28

Scirocco · 01/11/2024 00:23

Perhaps if people stopped oppressing them, subjecting them to occupation, killing and torturing them, and mocking/celebrating their deaths across media platforms, that might help go some way towards convincing people that there might be good intentions in there somewhere. As it stands, though, Israeli forces are killing, torturing and traumatising innocent people, while supporters and people in government are gleefully cheering for pro-genocide and pro-annexation slogans. You don't liberate a population by doing this - this is the destruction of Palestine, not its liberation.

If Hamas (and their predecessors) weren't encouraging the people to hate and firing bombs into Israel constantly, Israel wouldn't need the road blocks and checks, if the road blocks and checks weren't necessary, the people would have better access to goods and services be able to create better lives for themselves, so they wouldn't be so easily brainwashed by Hamas et all who encourage and promote hatred while ruling by fear.

Scirocco · 01/11/2024 00:42

Oodiks · 01/11/2024 00:28

If Hamas (and their predecessors) weren't encouraging the people to hate and firing bombs into Israel constantly, Israel wouldn't need the road blocks and checks, if the road blocks and checks weren't necessary, the people would have better access to goods and services be able to create better lives for themselves, so they wouldn't be so easily brainwashed by Hamas et all who encourage and promote hatred while ruling by fear.

Have you actually been to the Occupied Territories and seen what is being done to the innocent people living there, by the Israeli government, Israeli forces, 'settlers' and their supporters?

Dariamar · 01/11/2024 00:44

Scirocco · 01/11/2024 00:23

Perhaps if people stopped oppressing them, subjecting them to occupation, killing and torturing them, and mocking/celebrating their deaths across media platforms, that might help go some way towards convincing people that there might be good intentions in there somewhere. As it stands, though, Israeli forces are killing, torturing and traumatising innocent people, while supporters and people in government are gleefully cheering for pro-genocide and pro-annexation slogans. You don't liberate a population by doing this - this is the destruction of Palestine, not its liberation.

I think this is a 2 way street...but it started with Palestinians attacking and suicide bombing Israelis. That is the reason there is blockades and checks. There is no concept of " martyrdom" in Israel... But it ( was) worth money in Gaza...that's just incomprehensible to most people! Most Israelis just want to live in peace, but it's hard to do that when they are being attacked on 3 fronts. I'm not sure what you suggest they do? I think Hamas has to be completely taken out...( I do not think the Israeli govt. are going about that the right way...but I can also see it must be hard operating in such a small place with a high civilian population).

Oodiks · 01/11/2024 00:50

Scirocco · 01/11/2024 00:42

Have you actually been to the Occupied Territories and seen what is being done to the innocent people living there, by the Israeli government, Israeli forces, 'settlers' and their supporters?

No, have you?

Scirocco · 01/11/2024 00:51

Oodiks · 01/11/2024 00:50

No, have you?

Yes.

Auvergne63 · 01/11/2024 15:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Well Netanyahu funded Hamas. I would be, therefore, correct to think that he and his extremist government are disbanded too?

Dulra · 01/11/2024 16:21

Oodiks · 01/11/2024 00:28

If Hamas (and their predecessors) weren't encouraging the people to hate and firing bombs into Israel constantly, Israel wouldn't need the road blocks and checks, if the road blocks and checks weren't necessary, the people would have better access to goods and services be able to create better lives for themselves, so they wouldn't be so easily brainwashed by Hamas et all who encourage and promote hatred while ruling by fear.

You need to build trust on both sides. What your post suggests is a one way street. There is cause and effect, what you describe is an extremely simplistic version of the current and previous conflicts.

Oodiks · 01/11/2024 19:27

Auvergne63 · 01/11/2024 15:57

Well Netanyahu funded Hamas. I would be, therefore, correct to think that he and his extremist government are disbanded too?

People historically tend towards right wing governments when they feel threatened, so it's kind of chicken and egg.

Lalaloveya · 01/11/2024 22:00

So much dehumanising and disgusting hateful language on this thread. It's sickening. I can't believe it's allowed.

mouthpipette · 01/11/2024 22:10

Sir Alan Duncan, ex foreign office, is worth listening to.
Though some of his criticism of Israel may just be sour grapes.
Remember he was named in the documentary ( "The Lobby" ) as being someone who would be worth "taking down".

Get over the chunkiness of the interviewer and the editing and Alan Duncan's responses seem very measured.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vf0BMcpd3U

SharonEllis · 01/11/2024 22:54

mouthpipette · 01/11/2024 22:10

Sir Alan Duncan, ex foreign office, is worth listening to.
Though some of his criticism of Israel may just be sour grapes.
Remember he was named in the documentary ( "The Lobby" ) as being someone who would be worth "taking down".

Get over the chunkiness of the interviewer and the editing and Alan Duncan's responses seem very measured.

Edited

The 'chunkiness' is the editing. Wonder why. You think its 'measured' to just dismiss Jenrick's position on Israel as taking his 'script' from the Israelis? You think its 'measured' to say Israel controls the British Foreign Office? WTAF? How would they do that I wonder? Its one of the oldest tropes in the book. Disgraceful.

mouthpipette · 01/11/2024 23:52

@SharonEllis who wrote thus,
You think its 'measured' to just dismiss Jenrick's position on Israel as taking his 'script' from the Israelis?

I would probably place greater weight on Sir Alan Duncan's opinion on Jenrick than on yours, Mostly because Duncan is likely to have had a greater interaction with Jenrick than you and more likely a greater experience in foreign affairs, than you.

You think its 'measured' to say Israel controls the British Foreign Office? WTAF? How would they do that I wonder? Its one of the oldest tropes in the book. Disgraceful.

And it can't be one of the oldest tropes in the book. Israel meddling or tampering with our foreign office could have only started in 1948. I'm sure there are far older tropes around, surely some about ancient Greeks or Romans. What about the Druids ?

But you're right about "chunkiness". I did mean to write "clunkiness" which describes the editing far better.

SharonEllis · 02/11/2024 06:18

mouthpipette · 01/11/2024 23:52

@SharonEllis who wrote thus,
You think its 'measured' to just dismiss Jenrick's position on Israel as taking his 'script' from the Israelis?

I would probably place greater weight on Sir Alan Duncan's opinion on Jenrick than on yours, Mostly because Duncan is likely to have had a greater interaction with Jenrick than you and more likely a greater experience in foreign affairs, than you.

You think its 'measured' to say Israel controls the British Foreign Office? WTAF? How would they do that I wonder? Its one of the oldest tropes in the book. Disgraceful.

And it can't be one of the oldest tropes in the book. Israel meddling or tampering with our foreign office could have only started in 1948. I'm sure there are far older tropes around, surely some about ancient Greeks or Romans. What about the Druids ?

But you're right about "chunkiness". I did mean to write "clunkiness" which describes the editing far better.

Yes I know when Israel was founded and you know I know. The trope is Jewish people controlling people/politics.

dontbedaft2000 · 02/11/2024 06:24

Hunnymonster1 · 17/10/2024 22:15

War not wat can’t edit title oops
Surely Israel have achieved their goal of bringing down the leader of hamas? When I heard that he was dead my first thoughts were that must mean a ceasefire can be done now surely. Or do you think the prime minister of Israel knows his number is up politically soon that’s why he won’t stop the war? Plus we all know a cease fire has to take both sides and just because this leader is dead doesn’t mean another won’t step up
so maybe I am being niave in my point of view

Once Hamas, who started the war during a ceasefire, surrender unconditionally and release any of the hostages who are left alive after a year of being raped, beaten and tortured since they day they were kidnapped during the ceasefire, the war will be over.

Daftasabroom · 02/11/2024 08:16

Dariamar · 01/11/2024 00:44

I think this is a 2 way street...but it started with Palestinians attacking and suicide bombing Israelis. That is the reason there is blockades and checks. There is no concept of " martyrdom" in Israel... But it ( was) worth money in Gaza...that's just incomprehensible to most people! Most Israelis just want to live in peace, but it's hard to do that when they are being attacked on 3 fronts. I'm not sure what you suggest they do? I think Hamas has to be completely taken out...( I do not think the Israeli govt. are going about that the right way...but I can also see it must be hard operating in such a small place with a high civilian population).

Don't be ridiculous it didn't start with Hamas. It started before 1967, 1948, even 1917 - and none of those were precipitated by the Palestinians or local Arab populations.

dontbedaft2000 · 02/11/2024 08:22

Daftasabroom · 02/11/2024 08:16

Don't be ridiculous it didn't start with Hamas. It started before 1967, 1948, even 1917 - and none of those were precipitated by the Palestinians or local Arab populations.

On October 7th there was a ceasefire. On October 8th Hamas started the war.

Hamas must now surrender unconditionally as they are being absolutely creamed.

Of course, only someone who was insanely brutally anti semitic would ever dare try to suggest that Israel should surrender to the people who brutally raped and murdered their children then held them hostage for a year, after breaking a ceasefire to start a war.

That would be insane.

So, once Hamas surrenders unconditionally and releases any of the hostages they have not yet raped to death, Israel can stop continuing to wage war against the people who started the war on October 8th.

Daftasabroom · 02/11/2024 08:56

dontbedaft2000 · 02/11/2024 08:22

On October 7th there was a ceasefire. On October 8th Hamas started the war.

Hamas must now surrender unconditionally as they are being absolutely creamed.

Of course, only someone who was insanely brutally anti semitic would ever dare try to suggest that Israel should surrender to the people who brutally raped and murdered their children then held them hostage for a year, after breaking a ceasefire to start a war.

That would be insane.

So, once Hamas surrenders unconditionally and releases any of the hostages they have not yet raped to death, Israel can stop continuing to wage war against the people who started the war on October 8th.

No one has suggested Israel surrender to Hamas.

Israel have absolutely no intention of stopping.