Hamas leader dead surely the wat between Israel and Gaza and Lebanon must stop now

[Hunnymonster1]

War not wat can’t edit title oops
Surely Israel have achieved their goal of bringing down the leader of hamas? When I heard that he was dead my first thoughts were that must mean a ceasefire can be done now surely. Or do you think the prime minister of Israel knows his number is up politically soon that’s why he won’t stop the war? Plus we all know a cease fire has to take both sides and just because this leader is dead doesn’t mean another won’t step up
so maybe I am being niave in my point of view

This “Many men & women in Gaza support Hamas and many of those killed will have been active and passive Hamas supporters.”

Does Not Matter

Not one bit

In war, you are prohibited from killing the civilians for suspected support for “the enemy” even if the enemy are the worst, most sadistic, evil terrorists on the planet in the history of humanity.

But you are allowed to kill hamas fighters and commanders and they are included in the figures.I think you need to go back and read the conversation - the person I was responding to had in fact misunderstood me.

They misunderstood you, but I did not misunderstand either of you.

You have been arguing that there is no possibility of this being a genocide on the assumption that a large proportion of the reported deaths are Hamas fighters. You have also pointed out that even those who are not Hamas, many are “passive or active” supporters as if that makes it ok to kill these civilians and definitely not genocide.

I am saying that any civilian killed under suspicion of active or passive support, or even unwilling human shield isn’t an ethical or legal get out of jail free card when it comes to war crimes, including genocide.

The ICJ ruled in January that the Gazans were at ‘plausible risk’ of genocide. So perhaps you should pause and think a bit more before arguing that this cannot possibly be one.

Sorry but you have misunderstood what the ICJ ruled. It did not rule 'that Gazans were at plausible risk of genocide'
The court in fact ruled 'the facts and circumstances... are sufficient to conclude that at least some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection are plausible.'
This was widely misinterpreted, including by the UN. Joan Donoghue, the president of the ICJ at the time has said, the purpose of the ruling was to declare that South Africa had a right to bring its case against Israel and that Palestinians had “plausible rights to protection from genocide” - rights which were at risk.

Worth watching in full.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-68906919

I think a lot of people unintentionally or intentionally misinterpret rulings

They just hear what they want to hear.

Yes! Exactly!

Kind of makes you wonder why all the Palestinians blame Israel, but none of them blame the mindset of Hamas - at least not publicly.

I imagine a lot of Palestinians do privately blame Hamas ( as well as blaming Israel) But I can’t blame them for not openly condemning Hamas - would you if you were in their shoes?
I imagine most are just trying to keep their families safe and fed in impossible circumstances

Who says they don't? Such sweeping statements bring nothing to a debate.
`

It really does unresolvable.

On the one hand you have an Israel who doesn’t believe there is a Palestine, that there should be a ‘whole Israel’. On the other hand you have a Palestine who doesn’t believe there is an Israel, and there should be a ‘whole Palestine’.

It’s really like a couple who weren’t really that fond of each other but had a drunken slip up on night, and then spent the next several years suffering together because everyone said it was in the best interest of the child. Then they decided they couldn’t anymore and went to court for the property settlement only to be told they still had to live in the same house but they could have different rooms. It’s never ever going to work. It will only ever be solved by one partner moving out.

Similarly, the situation as it is is never going to work. International courts telling them they have to ‘live in the same house and get along’ is not going to work. In that situation, it’s just a matter of time before one or the other blows their top (and rightly so).

*seem unresolvable.

You see, I was surprised at how developed much of Gaza appeared prior to Oct 7th!

The world has seen that Israelis said 'Never Again'- and meant it.

Much of the developed world's leadership and its non-marching majorities have either tacitly sided with Israel or have refused to get involved, and none of Gaza's neighbours want anything to do with this. Even Iran has pretty much distanced itself from Gaza.

Ask yourself why.

@HoppingPavlova

I would add in that the friends of the woman in this situation take the view that the man is being totally unreasonable and should move out. Whereas the friends of the man take the view that woman is being totally unreasonable and should move out.

Whilst the friends have good intentions the problem is that their support only stiffens the resolve of both parties that they are in the right and which makes any compromise even harder to achieve.

True - but isn't this how evil maintains its grip?

Okay. Then can you post links to some examples of Palestinians vociferously denouncing Hamas and openly admitting that Palestinians triggered this conflict?

I haven't run across any.

But is it reasonable to expect homeless and fearful Palestinians to defeat evil while they’re desperately trying to keep themselves and their families alive .

I do think this is an unreasonable expectation. If Hamas is as ruthless and evil as we believe they would be putting themselves and their families at risk .

I do however think those on the marches in the UK SHOULD openly denounce Hamas as they are not at risk .

They are too busy trying to survive at the moment.

For that matter, I don't even see Palestinians in the U.S. condemning Hamas for triggering Israel - and they have no excuse of trying to survive.

Come to think of it, I haven't seen many marches condemning Hamas at all.

If the majority of Palestinians in Gaza were against Hamas why can't they revolt against them, free the hostages, and work towards peace?

In between being killed, starved, maimed, displaced??? You've no idea

I can only assume you have not seen the news reports from Gaza

and work towards peace with who excatly a government that sees them as less than human that is at present carrying out a genocide

You do know that people can read the many studies out there about Israel and how they purposefully target and restrict infrastructure in both Gaza and the West Bank right? No one with half a brain swallows the line that Gaza just hasn't gotten it's act together because they've been too focused on destroying Israel.

It's especially strange that people try to pass this off as the truth when it's really easy to see that it is Israel who have actually been doing the destroying of Palestine, repeatedly and to the tune of billions of dollars.