Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

Hamas leader dead surely the wat between Israel and Gaza and Lebanon must stop now

172 replies

Hunnymonster1 · 17/10/2024 22:15

War not wat can’t edit title oops
Surely Israel have achieved their goal of bringing down the leader of hamas? When I heard that he was dead my first thoughts were that must mean a ceasefire can be done now surely. Or do you think the prime minister of Israel knows his number is up politically soon that’s why he won’t stop the war? Plus we all know a cease fire has to take both sides and just because this leader is dead doesn’t mean another won’t step up
so maybe I am being niave in my point of view

OP posts:
ConstanceM · 17/10/2024 23:25

Israel is ethnic cleansing Palestine and it's agenda (through genocide) is a land grab across Gaza for US born Jewish settlers. They are also terrorising the west bank which have no Hamas members. They are also blitzing Lebanon and killing Christians and blowing up villages. Netanayu is a genocidal maniac, If Hamas had killed 40,000+ Jews, the media would call it genocide. If Russia had killed 40,000+ Ukrainians we would call it Genocide. When Israel kills 40,000+ in absolute hellfire it's called SELF DEFENSE. You do the math. Israel will not 🚫

Oodiks · 17/10/2024 23:29

User37482 · 17/10/2024 23:14

I think Netanyahu is saying hand over the hostages and we can all stop. I think we are at the point now where if the hostages are returned then Israel will wind down in Gaza. But the hostages must be returned and hamas need to lay down arms otherwise this will not stop

Lebanon is different, they also attacked Israel first but I don’t think Israel is going to leave Hezbollah in a position to attack it in the near future if it can help it. I imagine they are also hoping to defang hezbollah enough so that another civil group can move into the vacuum and the Lebanese army can take over security of Lebanon.

Houthis also struck Israel without provocation and the USA actually bombed them recently not Israel, partly because they are setting fire to cargo ships in the straits.

Hamas have been stealing aid and selling it back to Palestinians according to a Palestinian account I follow on twitter. Aid is getting to people with money not the most needy. Really need freeflow aid and security to be restored in Gaza, the PA need to go in and manage healthcare and food. I really hope that is soon.

I've been puzzled by reports about the cost of food in Gaza when it's all aid.

Of course, Hamas are stealing the aid and selling it; they are not concerned about Gazan lives.

SummerFeverVenice · 17/10/2024 23:31

User37482 · 17/10/2024 23:19

Well yes until the hostages are returned there will still be war. Hamas need to lay down arms and return the hostages.

He didn’t say that.
“The return of the hostages is an opportunity to achieve all of our goals, and it brings the end of the war nearer.”

Brings the end of the war nearer

and his amnesty offer doesn’t say the war will end, just promises they will live
Those who put down their weapons and leave our hostages, we will allow them to come out and live.”

although it directly conflicts with:

As King David said, “I will pursue my enemies and destroy them. And I will not turn back until they are wiped out.”

This alludes to Psalm 18, in which King David writes about literally killing a retreating and surrendering enemy as part of conquest of foreign lands:

37I pursued my enemies and overtook them;
I did not turn back until they were consumed.
38I crushed them so they could not rise;
they have fallen under my feet.
39You have armed me with strength for battle;
You have subdued my foes beneath me.
40You have made my enemies retreat before me;
I put an end to those who hated me.
41They cried for help, but there was no one to save them—
to the LORD, but He did not answer.
42I ground them as dust in the face of the wind;
I trampled them like mud in the streets.
43You have delivered me from the strife of the people;
You have made me the head of nations;
a people I had not known shall serve me.
44When they hear me, they obey me;
foreigners cower before me.
45Foreigners lose heart
and come trembling from their strongholds.”

SharonEllis · 17/10/2024 23:37

ConstanceM · 17/10/2024 23:25

Israel is ethnic cleansing Palestine and it's agenda (through genocide) is a land grab across Gaza for US born Jewish settlers. They are also terrorising the west bank which have no Hamas members. They are also blitzing Lebanon and killing Christians and blowing up villages. Netanayu is a genocidal maniac, If Hamas had killed 40,000+ Jews, the media would call it genocide. If Russia had killed 40,000+ Ukrainians we would call it Genocide. When Israel kills 40,000+ in absolute hellfire it's called SELF DEFENSE. You do the math. Israel will not 🚫

Genocide is not solely about numbers. I wish people would take the trouble to understand what genocide is.

Oodiks · 17/10/2024 23:37

ConstanceM · 17/10/2024 23:25

Israel is ethnic cleansing Palestine and it's agenda (through genocide) is a land grab across Gaza for US born Jewish settlers. They are also terrorising the west bank which have no Hamas members. They are also blitzing Lebanon and killing Christians and blowing up villages. Netanayu is a genocidal maniac, If Hamas had killed 40,000+ Jews, the media would call it genocide. If Russia had killed 40,000+ Ukrainians we would call it Genocide. When Israel kills 40,000+ in absolute hellfire it's called SELF DEFENSE. You do the math. Israel will not 🚫

Wikipedia: Casualties in the Russo-Ukrainian War include six deaths during the 2014 annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation, 14,200–14,400 military and civilian deaths during the War in Donbas,[1] and up to 1,000,000 estimated casualties during the Russian invasion of Ukraine till mid-September 2024.

Casualty (person) - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualty_(person)

Oodiks · 17/10/2024 23:39

SharonEllis · 17/10/2024 23:37

Genocide is not solely about numbers. I wish people would take the trouble to understand what genocide is.

Intention is a big part of it. eg Hitler intended to slaughter all Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and other undesirables or Hamas intends to destroy Israel.

SummerFeverVenice · 17/10/2024 23:39

Oodiks · 17/10/2024 23:29

I've been puzzled by reports about the cost of food in Gaza when it's all aid.

Of course, Hamas are stealing the aid and selling it; they are not concerned about Gazan lives.

Rubbish! Over half the food getting to Gaza was not aid but commercially bought by Gazans at exorbitant prices:
”Israel has stopped processing requests from traders to import food to Gaza, according to 12 people involved in the trade, choking off a track that for the past six months supplied more than half of the besieged Palestinian territory's provisions.”

“between May and September, the data shows. Commercial shipments goods bought by local traders, trucked in after direct approval by Cogat, and then sold in marketplaces in Gaza accounted for about 55% of the total during that period.”

”The commercial system's apparent closure came as Israel launched a new military operation against Hamas in northern Gaza, a parallel development that has obstructed humanitarian aid deliveries. The U.N.'s World Food Programme said in a statement on Sunday the operation cut off all aid deliveries through crossings in the north for at least two weeks this month.”

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-stops-processing-key-commercial-food-imports-gaza-sources-say-2024-10-17/

Israeli firms selling food to Gazans have been reaping the profits caused by COGAT not letting in food aid (which is free).

It’s all been shut off now, I suppose Gazans have run out of money to pay Israel for food.

SharonEllis · 17/10/2024 23:40

Oodiks · 17/10/2024 23:39

Intention is a big part of it. eg Hitler intended to slaughter all Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and other undesirables or Hamas intends to destroy Israel.

Yes.

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/10/2024 23:43

An end to the war will mean an end to Netanyahu's power and will bring about his his trial for war crimes.

So he's not going to do that. He's a fucking psycho.

Whatsinanamehey · 17/10/2024 23:47

SharonEllis · 17/10/2024 23:40

Yes.

or as Netanyahu intends to destroy (and largely succeeded) the Amalek (Palestinians according to him)

SummerFeverVenice · 17/10/2024 23:48

Also issued today:

”Netanyahu's Likud Party Issues Invitation to Event Titled 'Preparing to Settle Gaza'
The event, scheduled for next week, is part of an initiative by the Nachala movement, which is known for establishing illegal outposts in the West Bank. Several ministers and MKs from Likud and Otzma Yehudit are expected to attend.”
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-10-16/ty-article/.premium/netanyahus-likud-party-issues-invitation-to-event-titled-preparing-to-settle-gaza/00000192-95b6-d9c2-a7f3-9db676f40000

Netanyahu's Likud party issues invitation to event titled 'Preparing to Settle Gaza'

***

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-10-16/ty-article/.premium/netanyahus-likud-party-issues-invitation-to-event-titled-preparing-to-settle-gaza/00000192-95b6-d9c2-a7f3-9db676f40000

SharonEllis · 17/10/2024 23:51

Whatsinanamehey · 17/10/2024 23:47

or as Netanyahu intends to destroy (and largely succeeded) the Amalek (Palestinians according to him)

In what sense has he largely succeeded in destroying the Palestinians? Around 2% have been killed in the war - a large number of those are Hamas fighters who are an entirely legitimate target in a conflict.

SummerFeverVenice · 17/10/2024 23:54

Oodiks · 17/10/2024 23:39

Intention is a big part of it. eg Hitler intended to slaughter all Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and other undesirables or Hamas intends to destroy Israel.

Yes it is. See
https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition

For good discussion.

SummerFeverVenice · 18/10/2024 00:08

SharonEllis · 17/10/2024 23:51

In what sense has he largely succeeded in destroying the Palestinians? Around 2% have been killed in the war - a large number of those are Hamas fighters who are an entirely legitimate target in a conflict.

The definition only requires intention to destroy in whole or in part.
The part must be “substantial”
The Sebrenica genocide (ruled as one by the ICJ) had a death toll of 8,000 boys/men and displacement of 20,000 civilians in a much larger population and region.

No one knows how many Hamas fighters have been killed, so there is no way to say how many of the 42k estimated dead were Hamas. All we know is that it is some number less than 10k as three quarters of the dead are women killed with their children. From the 10k we would have to subtract all civilian men, including the hundreds of medical workers, rescue/fire fighters, UN staff and journalists that have been tracked as killed.

MsAmerica · 18/10/2024 00:14

Hunnymonster1 · 17/10/2024 22:15

War not wat can’t edit title oops
Surely Israel have achieved their goal of bringing down the leader of hamas? When I heard that he was dead my first thoughts were that must mean a ceasefire can be done now surely. Or do you think the prime minister of Israel knows his number is up politically soon that’s why he won’t stop the war? Plus we all know a cease fire has to take both sides and just because this leader is dead doesn’t mean another won’t step up
so maybe I am being niave in my point of view

Nice thought, but not necessarily. The goal wasn't to bring down the leader. It's not like the U.S. where the problem is coming mostly from one person. In fact, I'm not sure if anyone really knows what Israel's "goal" is, beyond trying to ensure it doesn't happen again. It's a problem when the entire society has an underlying wish to wipe a neighboring country off the face of the map.

I wonder if theoretically it might have been quickly stopped if the Israeli hostages had been immediately returned. But Hamas didn't want it to stop and their leaders have said they don't regret the slaughter they triggered.

GogAndMagog · 18/10/2024 00:26

Hamas is an ideaolgy. You can't kill it.

TooBigForMyBoots · 18/10/2024 00:33

SharonEllis · 17/10/2024 23:51

In what sense has he largely succeeded in destroying the Palestinians? Around 2% have been killed in the war - a large number of those are Hamas fighters who are an entirely legitimate target in a conflict.

Disease and starvation will make up the numbers he needs.

Dariamar · 18/10/2024 00:34

MsAmerica · 18/10/2024 00:14

Nice thought, but not necessarily. The goal wasn't to bring down the leader. It's not like the U.S. where the problem is coming mostly from one person. In fact, I'm not sure if anyone really knows what Israel's "goal" is, beyond trying to ensure it doesn't happen again. It's a problem when the entire society has an underlying wish to wipe a neighboring country off the face of the map.

I wonder if theoretically it might have been quickly stopped if the Israeli hostages had been immediately returned. But Hamas didn't want it to stop and their leaders have said they don't regret the slaughter they triggered.

No Hamas didn't want it to stop...Hamas wanted to get the most number of Palestinians killed...martyrs, like they trained little children to be (and their parents) ...the whole mindset is insideous and will take lots of aid and education to overcome. But for Hamas...the more Palestinians killed, the better...and they have done a fine job of harvesting the western left wing to support their cause. Which doesn't help any innocent Palestinians who don't support Hamas.

Oodiks · 18/10/2024 00:35

MsAmerica · 18/10/2024 00:14

Nice thought, but not necessarily. The goal wasn't to bring down the leader. It's not like the U.S. where the problem is coming mostly from one person. In fact, I'm not sure if anyone really knows what Israel's "goal" is, beyond trying to ensure it doesn't happen again. It's a problem when the entire society has an underlying wish to wipe a neighboring country off the face of the map.

I wonder if theoretically it might have been quickly stopped if the Israeli hostages had been immediately returned. But Hamas didn't want it to stop and their leaders have said they don't regret the slaughter they triggered.

Not only did the Hamas leaders say they did not regret it, they said they'd do it again and again if they could.

Hunnymonster1 · 18/10/2024 01:53

Whatsinanamehey · 17/10/2024 23:03

Well his speech doesn't give any indication of a war ending any time soon. His political survival is dependant on the continuation of the war.

Yes just read the speech thanks to the poster that put that it’s rather depressing really

OP posts:
Hunnymonster1 · 18/10/2024 01:55

SummerFeverVenice · 17/10/2024 23:00

Here is full text of his speech from Times of Israel:

”Citizens of Israel, a year ago we celebrated the festival of Sukkot. At exactly that moment, Yahya Sinwar was making the final preparations for the slaughter of October 7.

I stand before you today to tell you that Yahya Sinwar has been eliminated. The one who carried out the worst massacre in the history of our people since the Holocaust, the mass murderer who murdered thousands of Israelis, abducted hundreds of our people, was eliminated today by our heroic soldiers.”

Today, as we promised we would, we settled accounts with him.

Today, evil suffered a heavy blow, but our mission is not yet completed.

To the dear hostage families, I say: This is an important moment in the war. We will continue with full force until all your loved ones — our loved ones — are returned home. That is our supreme obligation. That is my supreme obligation

To the residents of Gaza, I say: Sinwar destroyed your lives. He told you he was a lion but in practice, he hid in a dark tunnel and was eliminated when he fled in a panic from our soldiers.

His elimination is an important milestone in the demise of the Hamas axis of evil.

I want to say again as clearly as possible: Hamas will not rule again in Gaza.

This is the beginning of the day after Hamas, and this is an opportunity for you, residents of Gaza, to finally be free of its tyranny.

To the terrorists of Hamas, I say: Your leaders are fleeing and will be eliminated.
I say to all those who are holding our hostages: Those who put down their weapons and leave our hostages, we will allow them to come out and live. And by the same token, I say, those who harm our hostages, his blood is on his head and we will settle accounts with him.

The return of the hostages is an opportunity to achieve all of our goals, and it brings the end of the war nearer.

To the people of the region, I say: In Gaza, in Beirut, in the streets of the entire area, the darkness is withdrawing and the light is rising.

Deif, Haniyeh, Sinwar, Nasrallah, Mohsen, Aqil and many of their partners are no more.

I call on you, peoples of the region: We have a great opportunity to thwart the axis of evil and to create a different future, a future of peace, a future in which the entire region thrives. Together we can push away the curse and advance the blessing.

It’s now clear to all, in Israel and the world, why we insisted not to stop the war — why we insisted, in the face of all the pressures, yes to go into Rafah, the fortified stronghold of Hamas, where Sinwar and many of the mass-murderers were hiding.

I want to express deep appreciation to the fighters of the IDF and the Shin Bet, and their commanders, for their determined and brave operations. There are none better than them.

Today we again showed what happens to those who hurt us. Today, we again showed the world the victory of the good over the evil.

But the war, the war, my dear ones, is not yet finished. It is harsh and it takes a heavy price from us. I want to send from the bottom of my heart my condolences to those who have lost their loved ones. I want to embrace the families of our fallen heroes. Their ultimate sacrifice, including in these very days, brings us closer to victory.

As King David said, “I will pursue my enemies and destroy them. And I will not turn back until they are wiped out.”

Citizens of Israel, we are in the war of revival. We still face immense challenges. We need stamina, unity in the ranks, courage, determined resilience. Together we will fight and with God’s help, together we will win.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/full-text-of-netanyahus-address-after-killing-of-hamas-terror-chief-yahya-sinwar/

Thanks for the speech all rather depressing I mean he must realise that pretty much many of us think most of them hostages are prob dead now

OP posts:
Oodiks · 18/10/2024 02:18

Hunnymonster1 · 18/10/2024 01:55

Thanks for the speech all rather depressing I mean he must realise that pretty much many of us think most of them hostages are prob dead now

Who gives a flying fuck what ‘most of you’ think, the families won’t give up until their loved ones are home. Even if it’s only their remains to bury.

Jesus wept.

TooBigForMyBoots · 18/10/2024 02:21

Like Netenyahu gives a fuck about the hostages and their families.

He doesn't and they know it.

Hunnymonster1 · 18/10/2024 04:59

Oodiks · 18/10/2024 02:18

Who gives a flying fuck what ‘most of you’ think, the families won’t give up until their loved ones are home. Even if it’s only their remains to bury.

Jesus wept.

You do realise that isn’t how all of the relatives feel. One child adult he is and siblings of their parents that were killed they lived in a kabbutz I heard them on lbc. They want peace their parents wanted peace and they have actively campaigned against this war. Many families do not like how the pm of Israel has gone about this.
also u say they won’t give up at the expense of how many dead on the other side to

OP posts:
OP posts: