The aftermath

[Auvergne63]

All wars end. I use the term "war" very loosely as I don't view this as a war.
What will happen to the Gazans? How can live in such devastation? How can they deal with so much trauma? Will they ever recover?
Gaza faces a massive reconstruction challenge. Here are key facts and figures | Reuters
The former Israeli prime minister Olmert thinks that Netanyahu has no plan for after the war. He has been a strident critic of his actions.
Ex-Israeli PM makes devastating condemnation of Netanyahu’s war in Gazan | The Independent
Here is a link to his peace proposal in collaboration with Nasser al-Kidwa
Former Israeli PM and former Palestinian foreign minister lay out joint plan to end Israel-Hamas war | CBC News

I don't think they intend to let Gaza exist after the war. Israel intends to occupy.

I don't think they do either.

I think anyone with half a brain can see that's their intention.

Agree with the above I don't think Israel will leave Gaza, the few Palestinians that survive will have nowhere to live. I also suspect they will occupy a large part of Lebanon for many years.

@MissyB1 I saw a video of an Israeli woman yesterday. I have no idea who she was but she was showing a map of Israel expanding into Lebanon and the new State of Israel. I've also seen another Israeli say they want to take over Lebanon and Gaza as it is theirs.

As much as I hate to say it, as the two are not interchangeable, but this won't end well for Israelis or Jews. The amount of hatred this war has created towards the two, as a consequence of the Israeli government actions is significant. A price will be paid, not now, but over the course of time.

Op this is something I have thought about a lot to be honest.
What I fail to understand is what Israel are planning to do with the 2 million Gazans ( hopefully there will be that many left once this is over but at the current rate of murder who knows). If they subsumed the whole area into Israel, as one would assume they wish ,you have now been left with a seriously traumatized population. One that will be completely undereducated (no schools/ universities in over 12 months) one that will have lost many of its educated doctors/medics/teachers, many tradespeople etc . One that will have a population with diseases and illnesses for the rest of their lives due to malnutrition and lack of preventative medicine.
Not to mind the fact the whole area must be rebuilt.
Plus every child that has seen their parents and siblings murdered by airstrikes will grow up with that in their hearts, Israel will never have a peaceful era
The Israeli population will be subsidizing the area to the tune of billions

Rightly or wrongly there can be an attitude in Ireland that Northern Ireland is not economically independent and we are not willing to take on that burden to ensure a 32 county United Ireland.

This burden will fall to the Israelis. A very expensive price to pay for such a small area of land . I cannot imagine America paying for peace time reparations when no arms are being purchased.

I do think history will judge Israel very severely, it will be a shameful stain on the Country. The rest of the Countries that supported them (included UK) will also have to bear the shame.

@Martymcfly24 I don't think they intend for their to be many Gazans left. If you look through history at other peoples that have experienced genocide, occupation and land grabs, their populations shrink until they become an irrelevant minority as a proportion to the growing population of the recent invaders.

@Catatonican that is very true and to look 50 or 100 years into the future that probably will be what happens.

It's so sad though.
And I completely agree with your earlier point, the actions of the Israeli government will go down in history as a stain on them all.

It breaks my heart every day to think this can happen in 2024.

And we have no excuse now because we have seen it happen in real time.

We won't be able to say we didn't know to future generations .

As much as I hate to say it, as the two are not interchangeable, but this won't end well for Israelis or Jews. The amount of hatred this war has created towards the two, as a consequence of the Israeli government actions is significant. A price will be paid, not now, but over the course of time.

Then I hope that Israel does everything in it's power, over time, to be a safe haven for Jewish people globally.

Surely the best way to be a safe haven for Jewish people and Israelis is ceasefire, negotiations and rebuilding relations( and a more moderate government willing to take part in fair negotiations)

What's happening now is creating a new generation of terrorists ensuring Israel will never have peace.

The cycle will continue.

Yes, if abhorrent views like those expressed above are indicative of the world beyond CITME, we're going to need it.

Surely the best way to be a safe haven for Jewish people and Israelis is ceasefire, negotiations and rebuilding relations( and a more moderate government willing to take part in fair negotiations)

How do you get to the point where there is a more moderate government by ceasing fire now?
I'm genuinely not cheerleading for further bloodshed, it's heartrending, but I also don't see another way than war to get rid of Hamas and Hezbollah at this point.

What's happening now is creating a new generation of terrorists ensuring Israel will never have peace.

I think this is a very poor characterisation of Palestinians. Afrer the second world war, the Germans didn't become a new generation of terrorists despite the huge loss of civilian life and destruction of cities - they rebuilt.

Abhorrent? Yes. Not surprising though.

I'm not getting the feeling that you hate to say it at all, to be honest.

I think this is a very poor characterisation of Palestinians. Afrer the second world war, the Germans didn't become a new generation of terrorists despite the huge loss of civilian life and destruction of cities - they rebuilt.

No but after the lost World War 1 they started another one a generation later.

Do you think you can kill every Hamas and Hezbollah member and more importantly do you think you can bomb their ideology away.

I'm glad you agree with me that wishing punishment upon Israelis and Jews because they'll all have to pay a price in the future for the hatred towards them and "the stain on them all" is an abhorrent viewpoint.

The fact that you don't find it surprising speaks volumes about how this hatred has been allowed to flourish unchecked.

There is a horrifying complacency about the idea that its 'not surprising'. We've seen this morph into 'they brought it on themselves' before.

A phrase that has been used here repeatedly for Palestinians that they brought it on themselves by allowing Hamas to continue.

Yes, and it's disturbing and disappointing that instead of a discussion about the ways in which the global community that claims to care so much could contribute to rebuilding Gaza and safeguarding the lives, livelihoods, rights and futures of all Palestinians going forwards, there's an almost anticipatory attitude towards "this won't end well for Israelis or Jews" (wtf) as if it's regrettable but only natural that they're going to have to- and deserve to- suffer.

Why would anyone want to see a cycle of hatred and revenge perpetuated? Are people of other countries (and apparently their worldwide diasporic populations) also expected to bear the shame and be punished on masse for the actions of their governments, militaries and terrorist groups or is it just Israel and Jews? Rather than wishing to see further harm and division inflicted upon anyone, wouldn't it be better to wish for an effective multi-collaborative peace process and rebuilding?

It is wrong to wish punishment on civilian Jewish people ( I don't like to use the term "Jews" because of its connotations) and civilian Israelis as much as it is wrong to wish punishment on Muslims and the civilians of Gaza, the WB and now Lebanon.
I am sure you do agree with this.
Both antisemitism and islamophobia are on the increase. Both are equally abhorrent.

You would think! Its quite weird really. As George W. Bush of all people referred to it - the bigotry of low expectations. People who are 'pro-Palestinian' on these threads often seem to have low expectations of all sides . I'm sure its going to be really, really tough but I do have faith in people's resilience and desire for a better life. Its a tragedy that Hamas chose to attack people & communities actually engaged in active peace work but they weren't alone.