Has enough been done to tackle incitement to genocide?

[Scirocco]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cze5w2wd4x0o

No. Are you?

My refusal to answer promptly is clearly due to some horrendous motive rather than just having been posting in between removing DC's 'artwork' from my windows. Rainbows, scribbly clouds and what may have been farm animals are all very nice, but not on my actual windows and window ledges.

My refusal to answer promptly is clearly due to some horrendous motive

More projection and unnecessary exaggeration. As you had just answered, that statement clearly didn't refer to you. This thread is packed with posters giving their opinions on the necessity or lack thereof (in their view) for a Jewish state so I found it interesting that no-one answered that particular question.

The thread is, however, rather light on discussion of how incitement to genocide of Palestinians may be challenged. Or what can be done to try to protect innocent Palestinians suffering horrendous conditions, while genocidal rhetoric goes unchecked.

Maybe because it's about the thousandth thread saying all the same things.

So challenge it however you feel best when you encounter it? (Wherever that is, you haven't specified so it's difficult to make a more accurate suggestion. I don't think anyone here has a hotline to Smotrich or Ben-Gvir.)

If you find yourself in the position of constantly encountering people who are inciting, supporting or openly celebrating the deaths of Palestinians maybe it would be a good idea to take more care of the company you keep. The only people I've encountered inciting genocide have been antisemites.

Thanks. I think that response tells us clearly enough what your answer would probably be.

Read some history. Rabin was leading Israel to agreement but then was murdered by a right-wing extremist. Later, Bill Clinton said it was Arafat who scuppered the two-state proposal, which was agreed in theory and just waiting for agreement on the fine details, because he said if he accepted it he would be murdered by his own side.

I am clearly and very obviously talking about mumsnet. Obviously there are people in Israel and elsewhere that dont want P to have a state. There are also people in Israel who used to believe in a 2 state solution but have sadly lost faith since Hamas's dreadful attack. Many of those murdered & taken hostage were peace activists. I dont always minimise. You & others always read things into what Im saying because I dont fit into your black & white view of good and evil.

A two state solution wont be an occupation. Thats what 2 state means.

This is simply not true. Its a fantasy to suggest that Israel has prevented the 2 state solution. If that were the case it wouldn't be Hamas in charge of Gaza for so long (where is their road map?). I see no support for Netanyahu on these threads from those of us who are loosely supportive of the existence & protection of Israel and we have all argued that his extremist government has to go for a chance of lasting peace.

Well, if you don't have any comments on the published article, or thoughts on the incitement to genocide of Palestinians (which is happening all around us, actually), there are countless other threads which hopefully have something of relevance to you.

Are there things we as (presumably) ordinary members of the public could do to challenge this or at least say we don't condone the killing of innocent Palestinians and the erasure of Palestine? Probably. For example, we could contact our elected representatives, report things when we encounter them (eg flagging up podcasts to the relevant streaming services), directly challenge people who express support, etc.

The suggestion of changing who I spend time with is kind of unlikely to be successful in helping tackle this. For starters, people like Netanyahu aren't coming round to my house for playdates - they're saying this on the national and international stages. As we've seen, it is something which is comfortably discussed in media (eg podcasts). Support for the genocide of Palestinians is widespread and has sufficiently passed the dinner table test that now ordinary people consider it acceptable to say it out loud, in public or private. I can encounter it walking down a street, or going in to a mainstream shop, or reading mainstream sites on the internet.

Something that would also make a difference could be for people to stop equivocating and deflecting about the existence of support for the genocide of Palestinians or the existence of significant numbers of people (both in positions of authority and among the general public) who weighed up the values of lives and decided that Palestinian lives don't matter enough for them. The first step to being part of a solution is recognising that the problem exists.

Given that the article in the original post was talking about incitement to genocide which is happening in places other than Mumsnet, and a lot of the thread has been talking about things being said and done in places other than Mumsnet, it's probably not unreasonable for posters to point out that there is incitement to genocide happening in places other than Mumsnet.

There has also been condoning of and support for the mass killing of Palestinians, minimising of the events in Palestine, and denial of Palestinian rights to self-determination and safety, on Mumsnet. There have been entire threads going "It's very sad but..." or dismissing the eyewitness accounts of professionals who have seen the injuries and suffering of Palestinians.

There has also been condoning of and support for the mass killing of Palestinians, minimising of the events in Palestine, and denial of Palestinian rights to self-determination and safety, on Mumsnet. There have been entire threads going "It's very sad but..." or dismissing the eyewitness accounts of professionals who have seen the injuries and suffering of Palestinians.

Yes the last few pages of this thread are pretty shocking. Clearly for some Palestinian lives are of absolutely no value.

I am also pretty fed up with the broad sweeping accusations that are made about what mumsnetters have apparently said such as "no one where wants a two state solution" or "no one want a jewish state"? Where has someone said that? Why is it assumed that support for Palestinians automatically mean you don't want Isreal to exist? it is getting ridiculous. If things like this has been said challenge the poster that said it don't paint everyone with the same brush and make it sound like it is a collective opinion because its not.

@Scirocco” There has also been condoning of and support for the mass killing of Palestinians, minimising of the events in Palestine, and denial of Palestinian rights to self-determination and safety, on Mumsnet. There have been entire threads going "It's very sad but..." or dismissing the eyewitness accounts of professionals who have seen the injuries and suffering of Palestinians.“
This may be the case and the suffering of Palestinians cannot be denied.

It is also the case that posters have minimised the threat to Israel and dismissed the justified fears of Israelis.

There are broad sweeping generalisations made on both sides.

Of course they have a reason to be scared, but at the end of the day they're safe. Palestinians are being forced into camps that are then bombed.

Some of you really have no idea. It actually makes me so angry when I constantly see the Israeli occupation just waved away with 'well yes we don't agree with that but moving on'. The occupation has and is the root of the problem. Everything else is the effects. Go live in Jenin for a day. Go live in Tubas for a day. And then we will see if you are still singing the same tune.
You have no idea what irreversible harm decades of cruel occupation has caused.

Care to be more specific?
I am talking about the past couple of pages of this therad BTW

It is also the case that posters have minimised the threat to Israel and dismissed the justified fears of Israelis.
Where? and by who?

I’ll provide egs later when I have time

This near constant assertion that because posters are challenging some of the emotive or sweeping statements being made on this thread this means that Palestinian lives are of no value to them is all part of the need to assign moral value to and assert moral superiority over other people and assuming other people are doing the same to you when it's very much a one way process.

Why do you ask these questions? They are so goady, where has anyone on this thread suggested that there should not be a two state solution? and where has anyone said that jews should not have their own country?

You have said that the Isreali government would not currently support a two state solution
Does @Miffylou honestly think that the Israeli government will willingly accept a two state solution when all they do is steal more land every month?
At the moment, no. But in the long term, with a new Israeli leader and enough cast-iron guarantees from the international community that the security of Israel would be protected and defended, yes.

So where does that leave Gaza now?

Well if it takes time was it recent? because posters on these threads are changing constantly (or name changing constantly not sure which it is) and I am fed up with posters being accused of saying or agreeing with things because some other poster may have made a point, most of us on here are individuals not posting as a collective so we need to stop accusing people of things in the collective

because posters are challenging some of the emotive or sweeping statements being made on this thread
Can you give an example of an emotive or sweeping statement?

Bingo.