Over 210 massacred at Nuseirat refugee camp by IDF

[ConnieCounter]

https://www.thejournal.ie/israel-bombs-refugee-camp-200-dead-hamas-gaza-6402337-Jun2024/

The footage coming out of this this absolutely sickening. So many precious children killed. I've never seen anything like it. Poor innocent babies.

It's great that they managed to rescue 4 hostages (though it seems they killed others) but the human cost of that for Palestinians (and potentially other hostages) is absolutely obscene and not acceptable.

Actually, it is a debate on various points to do with yesterday's events. Especially when people claim a, b or c is a war crime in the context of the operation itself.

Right thinking people will understand that war is hell and more complicated than you might think.

Your question has been addressed in various places at various times with reference to IHL which is the actual frame of reference for conflicts like this.

Have a look around and you will find a couple of surprises on the issue.

So you don't want to debate that question.

How interesting 🙄

I would suggest the IDF should have been in a peacekeeping role and world governments should multilaterally be putting far more pressure on all parties for a permanent end to hostilities including a release of all hostages.
I am so happy that five hostages were rescued as these people and their families have suffered more than I can imagine. Civilians, including children, and soliders have died to free them because a peaceful solution has continued to fail. Tens of thousands have died and hundreds of thousands continue to suffer more than I can imagine.

Yup. I think a 'debate' with AI would be more up their street because where there are human there will inevitably be emotions, especially when discussing topics such as child killings. They constantly they call any expression of emotion 'manipulation' and wear it as a badge of honor that they themselves don't have any. Though I have noted that it is only expressions of emotion towards Palestinians that are described as 'manipulation', they have no comment on any emotions expressed by Pro Israel posters towards Israelis.

Disingenuous reply when I've addressed that question more than once in various places having cited IHL. 🤦‍♂️

Interesting you don't seem to look at many threads or posts suggesting a preference for an echo chamber confirmation loop.

On the contrary, it is expressions such as "you genocide supporter!" and "shame on you!" that I will call out the appeal to emotion on.

Ditto comments suggesting someone is less virtuous than another because they don't engage in emotion filled posts. Same thing.

So, you're another who prefers to personalise the debate! 🤦‍♂️

Yes, I'm the disingenuous one here.

And Mumsnet is a forum for debating just as much as for emotional expressions!

Tut, tut, Dulra....trying to police the thread and others, are we? 🧐

Gosh, heaven forbid we personalise dead children. That would just be dreadful wouldn't it to see them as actual people, so manipulative. 🙄

Honestly, I'm another that has no interest in your posts, for the most part I scroll past as soon as I see your username. I'll be ignoring you from here on 👍

That is a natural feeling for a parent, I agree.

But it does not mean that it was all right for a state to bomb a massive group of unrelated, fenced in civilian people while doing it, causing a massacre, and endangering remaining hostages, when all along Israel has been offered the release of all the hostages not just four - including those other four who were alive until yesterday but are now dead at from Israeli bombs if what H says is true - via a ceasefire and exchange for prisoners.

It seems it was NOT used. 👇

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/09/israel-gaza-hostages-rescue-eu-outrage

At least 274 Palestinians were killed and 698 wounded in Israeli strikes on the Nuseirat refugee camp in central Gaza, Gaza’s health ministry said on Sunday. The Israeli military said its forces came under heavy fire during the daytime operation.

The EU’s top diplomat, Josep Borrell, called it a “massacre”, while the UN’s aid chief described in graphic detail scenes of “shredded bodies on the ground”.

Nuseirat refugee camp is the epicentre of the seismic trauma that civilians in Gaza continue to suffer,” Martin Griffiths said in a post on X, calling for a ceasefire and the release of all hostages.

The bodies of 109 Palestinians including 23 children and 11 women were taken to al-Aqsa Martyrs hospital, which also treated more than 100 wounded, a spokesperson, Khalil Degran, told AP.

He also said more than 100 people killed in Israeli attacks had been taken to al-Awda hospital, with 210 victims in total. That figure was also given by the Hamas media office, but could not be verified.

More in the article.

Not policing anyone, giving an opinion on why there's a disconnect between how people post

The human shield narrative suits Israel just fine.

Gives them carte blanche to bomb them all anyway.

Very disingenuous reply there. The disingenuous replies is in the form of actively attempting to focus on ME and MY character.

Certainly about not valid emotional responses to distressing photos of injured and dead civilians from war.

That's exactly what I mean about manipulative attempts which you've proved me correct on.

But, yes, please do me a favour and scroll on by as disingenuous posts like yours waste everyone's time and energy.

Personalising debates is a deflection technique. So focus on the topic at hand.

Cheers!

If Hamas frees the hostages, give themselves up, the bloodbath will end.

I think it's sometimes difficult to grasp or accept (not in a patronising way, @stormy4319trevor but because you're clearly a moral and caring person) that Hamas leadership and military arm are essentially a genocidal extremist death cult whose main aim is not the liberation of the Palestinians but the annihilation of the Jewish state and total domination of the area, by any means necessary.
Hamas spokesmen have said over and over again that they welcome death (for the Palestinians trapped in Gaza, not themselves sitting in their luxury compounds and underground retreats) and are happy to sacrifice untold numbers for their ideology and their ultimate aims.
The Israelis want their hostages back and to neutralise Hamas leadership and armed battalions. Hamas achieve their aim of exploiting this and using innocent Palestinians by putting as many civilians as possible in harm's way where they know IDF will take action so that as many civilians as possible will be killed and injured.
The challenge is indeed for the IDF is to adopt a strategy that Hamas will not exploit to pursue their aim of maximum Palestinian suffering because Hamas does not care about and aims to maximise civilian deaths and injuries and the IDF's excessive use of force inflicts such horrendous suffering upon the Palestinian civilians because they're also pursuing their own strategy of hostage release and Hamas military neutralisation first and foremost. The number of innocent Palestinians being killed and injured while these objectives are the main priorities is beyond shameful and abhorrent.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/liveblog/2024/6/9/israels-war-on-gaza-live-nightmare-as-hospital-copes-with-nuseirat-dead

"Here’s what we know so far about the attack:

Israeli forces launched the raid in broad daylight, claiming to strike at military infrastructure in the camp as part of a rescue operation. But eyewitnesses and journalists on the ground say Israel bombed residential buildings leading to higher casualties.

A paramedic who witnessed the attack said it was “like a horror movie and that “Israeli drones and warplanes fired all night randomly at people’s houses”, according to Reuters. “Anyone who was moving in the street was killed,” an eyewitness said.

Two witnesses have told Al Jazeera that Israeli soldiers arrived in Nuseirat using aid trucks and lorries carrying furniture. Israel has denied those claims. Another eyewitness said that US-built pier was used in the attack but that claim was denied by the US Central Command as “false”.

Al-Aqsa Hospital, where most of the victims were taken, turned into a “slaughterhouse”, according to Dr Tanya Haj-Hassan of Doctors Without Borders, with footage showing patients, including children, “lying everywhere in pools of blood”.

Saul Takahashi, a former deputy head of the office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights in Occupied Palestine, told Al Jazeera the attack showed a clear disregard for international humanitarian law, lacking “proportionality”.

The deadly attack has triggered condemnation, with the EU foreign policy chief demanding “the bloodbath” to end."

They have to hide them in flats or tunnels in Gaza. There is no where else. If I were a hostage. I’d rather be in a flat.

It won't the Israeli government have been clear on that

Not bombing refugee camps would go some way in stopping the bloodbath.

Singing up to a ceasefire would stop it.

Israel doesn't want to stop the bloodbath. If they did they would...stop.

I'm glad to see it is being condemned. Borrell has it right when he says 'Three-stage plan is the way forward for an enduring ceasefire and to end the killing.'

It's really clear that it is the only way for both Palestinians and Isrselis to have any kind of lasting peace.

If British doctors returning from Gaza can't convince some that nothing justifies this, some folks are really a lost cause and it's fucking pointless arguing with them.

I don't believe that. I beleive that Israel will not stop until Palestine no longer exists

Netanyahu said as much.