Thank you to Ireland, Norway and Spain

[Scirocco]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-69047220

At a time when justice, empathy and integrity seem to be in short supply, a little light in the darkness.

Link to the BBC Live page covering statements announcing that the countries will recognise a Palestinian state on 28th May.

You're being respectful of Islam. But you're not being respectful of Christianity, because you feel it's 'yours' and familiarity has bred contempt.

You should absolutely think about whether you think a religion is good for society or not. And absolutely call out the terrible things which are done by any religious institution - past or present - and be very clear when you think that has harmed society.

But don't only do it for 'your' religion, and assume others are better... or else that it's none of your business. That's false thinking. If we're judging one religion, one institution, one way of thinking, we should judge all against the same yardstick.

Sorry - it is turning into a shit show. I got sidetracked.😣Back to the thread

💯

Embarrassed me? Oh Lord the only embarrassment here is you admitting you read the Daily Fail 🤣 thanks for the laugh though

Apology accepted, thank you.

I think I’ll be waiting a long time for my apology 😆

@Humdingerydoo but the Palestinians have always stated that they see East Jerusalem as the capital of a Palestinian state. The Israeli government have done everything in their power to prevent this with constantly approving more and more illegal settlements there EVEN during the war.

The poster specifically said Jerusalem, not East Jerusalem :)

By not specifying East Jerusalem it was quite clearly just an attempt to stir up more anger and hatred

A good question..

I would think that once people have been granted citizenship, they would be given a Passport for that country.
This means they stop being refugees and become the responsibility of the government of that country.

I could of course be wrong.

@Humdingerydoo I'm sure once a Palestinian state is established then they will become citizens of that state and no longer refugees. But If I'm wrong then someone do correct me.

But don't only do it for 'your' religion, and assume others are better.
I never said that I assumed others were better. I have no personal experience of other religions.

That's false thinking. If we're judging one religion, one institution, one way of thinking, we should judge all against the same yardstick.
Absolutely but I would need to do a lot of research to feel qualified to discuss other faiths. I can have a theoretical debate about religion as a concept but that would lead to a massive derailment so maybe for another day.

I think the matter of refugee status - what that then means, how it is addressed, etc - is something that would need to be considered as part of the defining of a Palestinian state, with consideration of existing precedents elsewhere in the world. Recognising that a Palestinian state has a right to exist is an important step in that process. Once there is acceptance of that, then the work of defining it can really begin.

I would think so. The issue with Palestinians as refugees at the moment is the fact they are stateless. If a state was established and they were eligible for citizenship I'm sure that would happen and they would no longer be considered refugees. They could have citizenship, passport, freedom to travel, self determination etc

For those posters who are upset that countries are recognising that there should be a Palestinian state, can I ask genuinely why?
What's the alternative to it? For the cycle of violence to continue as it has for past couple of decades?

Or Nazareth. The Bible can't make it's mind up.

Isn't it more people being upset that terrorism has won? Even Hamas have said so. They're patting themselves on the back for a murderous, terrorist job well done.

Hamas have a history of seeing that something works, like kidnapping Israelis, and then doing it again and again. So the fear is they'll now be further encouraged to repeat October 7th.

That's where I'm coming from anyway! I want a two state solution, I just don't want Hamas anywhere near any of it.

Just to answer this, I heard an Irish government person talking about this and she said that although right now they are working off the 1967 borders but where exactly the state of Palestine will be would be something that is hashed out between the two equal states of Israel and Palestine. It isn't Irelands place to dictate this but they feel it will be more beneficial for everyone if 2 equal parties are sat at the negotiating table. Ireland absolutely supports Israels right to exist and Irealnd absolutely supports Palestines right to exist.

Same

I welcome a move towards two states but Hamas can’t be part of it and I find it difficult wrt the barbaric terrorism

I think it can be done but they need to be out of the picture. Which admittedly is the hard part.

Can you explain how Hamas have 'won'? Ireland have strongly condemned Hamas and recognise them as terrorists and the PA are the government of Palestine. What 'reward' are Hamas receiving exactly?

then carry on mocking my religion
We are both equal members of the religion neither of us own it so I don't know why you refer to it as yours. As a member of the church I am entitled to criticise/ mock/question aspects of it.

your prejudice against my religion
I am not being prejudice, the definition of prejudice is an opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience. I have actual experience....

despite it not being the thread topic and the fact that no one is interested in
I am sure no one is interested so stop responding and questioning me.

Let's leave it now we are obviously very different and never agree on anything on these threads.

I understand where you are coming from but I don't see it as a win for Hamas. I see it as a fundamental right of the Palestinians. They should have the right of self-determination the same as any other people.
I personally also see it as a step in the right direction in the long term, as an end to the perpetual violence that has been going on from both sides for so long.
Edited to correct a typo

Obviously the reward, as they themselves see it, is that three countries are recognising the Palestinian state as a result of their own revolting barbarism.

I think the problem is that Hamas themselves see it as a win for them, even if others don't. So they'll still be encouraged to continue their terrorist activities.

As I said, I'm not actually opposed to two states. Like, at all. Just concerned about terrorists being encouraged to keep terrorising!

But you said yourself that you are in favour of a two state solution? When do you forsee that happening that won't make Hamas think it is happening as a result of their actions. How long should the Palestinian people be left stateless, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years? What happens in the meantime, more death and destruction to both Palestinians and Israelis? It has to happen sometime if peace is ever to happen. Hamas will not be part of it, that much is clear but as it is in the Hamas charter that they actively want a 2 state solution then whenever it is proposed Hamas will be pleased.

What are you talking about?

In Luke 2 and Matthew 2 it says clearly.
He was born in Bethlehem. He later lived in Nazereth and worked in his earthly father's shop as a carpenter.