Syria

[mids2019]

Has Syria been forgotten and who is to blame for civilian deaths in this region. It is Assad or rebel groups?

(Its a conflict in the middle East with huge civilian casualties but doesn't involve Israel so I guess this thread will for a death)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war#:~:text=The%20Syrian%20civil%20war%20(Arabic,sponsored%20and%20non%2Dstate%20actors.

I think it’s a syrian initiative, the reality is they have all been fighting for 14 years. There are people there who have fought in Iraq (al-qaeda or ex al-qaeda) in Afghanistan, in China. There are many who were battle hardened before Assad started murdering his own people. The Turks knew about this, they put the kibosh on the first suggested date and then the Syrians ignored them at went ahead later.

The Syrian army just collapsed. This isn’t the west and I think it’s a weird thing westerners suffer from, the belief they are somehow at the heart of everything. Israel eroded the IRCG and Hezbollah in Syria plus both were oriented towards attacks on Israel, the Russians were moving resource into Africa and Ukraine while Turkey increased it’s influence through the SNA. The amount of effort and investment by Assads allies is quite different from when he went mental.

The situation has not been static all this time, even if the west wasn’t paying attention. The reality is for the west the best thing would have been Assad to stay in place and Syria to be contained vs an open ungoverned space run by Jihadis. Hell even for the Israelis a weak Assad which allowed them to bomb Hezbollah and IRCG has been better for them than the prospect of a neighbour run by Al-Qaeda. Which is why they are bombing the living daylights out of any place with weapons , aircraft, chemical weapons.

No-one knows what Syria will look like in a year, the uncertainty is not great for the west or Israel, they are all scrambling to get a handle on the situation and the implications. Turkey thinks it’s expanding it’s sphere of influence, I expect them to be kicked out sharpish when things settle down.

The Syrians got rid of Assad/Hezbollah/Russians and Iran with a bit of “help” from Turkey and Israel and the inattentiveness of Russia and Iran. The west has been sitting on it’s hands for 14 years. It didn’t wake up one day and think “ah shit, we forgot to liberate the Syrians”. They did it themselves.

Here you go again... If Israel does it it's all good... Why should we trust Israel with its current track record in Gaza, West Bank and Lebanon?

No I mention turkey because it’s a major player. No-one should have chemical weapons. No-one I stand by that, I don’t want chemical weapons used against anyone, not Syrians, not Kurds, not Turks, no-one.

I understand you are Turkish and you have strong view on the PKK but these are SDF, they are a coalition of Kurds and arabs. There are civilians and the SNA has committed human rights abuses against them. Why if the aim is to overthrow assad are they pursuing turkeys interest in the region?

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20241205-kurds-dream-of-self-rule-under-threat-as-turkish-backed-forces-sweep-across-syria

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/who-are-syrian-national-army

We don’t “trust” Israel we look at what they are doing and try to make an assessment of their motives. Their motives are making sure their neighbours don’t have chemical weapons. I don’t see why anyone would object to that. Or object to reducing weapons stockpiles available to jihadis.

Their motives will always be for their own benefit with disregard to civilian lives or other countries' international rights. In a sane and just world, we would be talking about how to disarm Israel right now. Not thinking of them as a positive element to disarm other forces.

Btw, I'm 1/4 Kurdish. I see Kurds as part of Turkey as much as Turks. Many Kurds in Turkey support elimination of YPG in Syria. I wrote before, Hakan Fidan, the foreign minister of Turkey is of Kurdish descent and he's a major player in Turkey's strategy towards YPG.

@OchaLove

"In a sane and just world, we would be talking about how to disarm Israel right now. Not thinking of them as a positive element to disarm other forces."

If Israel was disarmed then being surrounded by hostile neighbours it would cease to exist.

Which if you are honest with yourself is maybe what deep down you would like to see.

Honestly, until this last year I had a very positive view of Israel as most people of Turkey. I still don't have a problem with Israel as a country but I have a problem with children down to babies being killed, schools and hospitals being bombed, surgeons being raped to death. You tell me, is this acceptable? If you think this is acceptable to keep Israel safe, then I can't help but think Israelis are on their path to a self-fulfilling prophecy of their own destruction.

and in terms of disarming Israel, its nuclear power makes me nervous, I believe it must be neutralized for everyone's sake. I want the same for Iran if they have any nuclear power.

In the real world the only people who want to disarm Israel are people who want to destroy Israel.

@OchaLove

"Whatever you say.. In the greater context, you are trying to hide Israel's land grab in Syria "

The real land grab in Syria is being done by Erdogan trying to recreate the Ottoman Empire.

Ataturk would be in tears if he could see how all his good works are being undone by Erdogan.

Israel hasn’t grabbed land apart from taking an observation post which will help them see if they’re about to be attacked. It’s not like they’re building settlements on the Golan heights. Turkey itself does the same and has enormous buffer zones on its border.

Ataturk was a great leader in many aspects but his ultra nationalistic policies are the source of problem with Kurds in Turkey. It was a time being ultra nationalistic was favorable so we can understand and excuse but we need to see the faults of it. Erdogan and similar governments that had been previously in power, have a view of religious kinship rather than nationalism. So Erdogan views Kurds as his brothers/sisters through Islam and has no problem of Kurds being in power positions - this is same as Ottoman view. Kurdish language has always been free during these type of governments and banned during nationalistic/laicist governments.

Erdogan is a practical guy, he wants to be influential in the area and have a mediator role. Any reference to Ottoman Empire is for internal politics.
In terms of presence in Syria, Erdogan wants to get rid of YPG and once it is done you can be sure there will be no presence of Turkey in Syria. Otherwise, there is a risk of YPG joining forces with PKK in Turkey and Turkey loosing land. On the contrary to your claim, Turkey is trying to not to lose land, and has no legitimate interest in expanding land.

Erdogan is a practical guy, he wants to be influential in the area and have a mediator role.

"Borders of the heart". He's still hankering after cosplaying as an Ottoman ruler, like the other strongman Putin wants a neo tsardom and sphere of influence or Xi or Modi, or of course, Trump

Syria is a land of 185 000 km2. In the last few days 22 million people have been freed from Assad but then taken over by rebel forces not all acting together. They face a hugely uncertain future. It amazes me that posters on a thread about Syria choose instead to focus on Israel’s “land grab” of a tiny strip of land on the border between Syria and Israel, where they are acting to deter any rebel forces taking advantage of the chaos and trying to invade Israel.

And how exactly would disarming Israel and leaving it to face all its hostile neighbours work? I sometimes think people forget entirely the geography of the Middle East, hence posting the map.

I worry a lot about nuclear weapons in the hands of Kim Jong Un and Putin. I worry about Israel having nuclear arms at about the same level I worry about the UK having them.

I hope the chemical weapons can be destroyed for a start. Then I hope we can leave the syrians alone just as we have left the Afghans alone at last. May be people can return to Syria now it is under a new regime too and the country can thrive in peace and freedom.
Israel can be Syria's friend as due to Israel the Syrians have got their country back. Russia has been distracted with Ukraine so again due to the West Syria has its country back too.

Now let us all try to live in peace and harmony with rights and freedom for all peoples, men and women and religions in Syria which is a very mixed country of different religions which I hope Hayʼat Tahrir al-Sham will respect. Currently HTS is a banned terrorist body in the UK due to its support for ISIS, our enemy.

www.thefp.com/p/simon-sebag-montefiore-after-assad-syria-putin-trump

@DifferentNameForThisBoard

"It amazes me that posters on a thread about Syria choose instead to focus on Israel’s “land grab” of a tiny strip of land on the border between Syria and Israel, where they are acting to deter any rebel forces taking advantage of the chaos and trying to invade Israel. "

It doesn't amaze me - it simply demonstrates the true sentiments behind such posters.

We should definitely leave them alone. Worrying that Putin has requested a meeting of the UN Security Council.

An interesting analysis of the situation:

Israel isn't directly relevant , but most of us wouldn't trust Netanyahu and his government as far as we could throw them, and "what land grab?" is their catchphrase.

@xenia "Israel can be Syria's friend as due to Israel the Syrians have got their country back"

What! No they did not, and if you think the rebels will be friendly with Israel then you have another thing coming.
The Syrians got their country back because of the rebels.

I can see why you find that interesting.

Is that Scott Ritter

A thoughtful analysis. Interesting.