The USA says Israel may have breached international law with American weapons in Gaza

[Scirocco]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68984999

There are concerns that the report was watered down, but even so, it's a new level of criticism to say these issues formally in a report at this level.

The question is, what does making a stand mean, and how to do it. Preventing death and destruction was unfortunately not an option offered by this election. The only question was: which is better for Palestinians - a Harris administration or a Trump administration. Making a stand means voting for the option you think is the least of the two evils, because there is no other possible outcome. It's false logic to portray not voting (or voting for a 3rd candidate, which is essentially the same) as a moral high ground.

There is a 3rd option. There is not better candidate option. They’re both destroying for Palestine. What has Biden - Harris done for Palestine in the last 4 years ? Nothing

Completely agree with @israelilefty that options 1 & 2 are not occupying the moral high ground in which case you might expect a reasonable, democratic American to go back to the original option on the table which is who was best overall for the United States, the rule of law, anti-racism, women's rights, secular values etc. This being an American election.

Do you mean Jill Stein's vote share? While that's a 0.4% that could have contributed to results, there's also the swings away from the Democrats to the Republicans (eg people saying they couldn't support the Democrats remaining in office), as well as people choosing not to vote at all (not turning up, leaving ballots blank, spoiling ballots, etc). In an election where the end result often comes down to a few percentage points in a few swing states, those small numbers are important.

And instead a lot of people voted for a convicted criminal, with a history of sexual misconduct, whose last term in office ended with a riot, who spreads misinformation about immigrants eating pets, who has contributed to the rolling back of women's rights, who wants an anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist to make healthcare policy decisions, who actively undermines democratic processes and admires despots...

Look forward to seeing the data and some informed analysis.

Exactly my point.

I'm sure you're very capable of looking at the figures yourself. If you're struggling to find the widely available information, I'll try to send some links later.

Dont patronise me. The informed analysis won't be out yet.

Is Trump good for the Palestinians? Absolutely not but he can't be worse than what Harris/Biden have allowed to transpire over the last year+. The truth is both major parties are evil.

Every few years voters are implored to vote for the "least worst option" and nothing ever changes.

I think that the circumstances of this election were unique and are (hopefully) unlikely to be repeated in the future.

I didn't vote in the UK elections earlier this year precisely because of this issue. I knew that I would be a hypocrite to cast a vote for Labour whilst witnessing the destruction that I have seen and honestly would not have been able to live with myself or betraying the people I care about in the region. That's my personal moral compass.

I am not judging anyone who chose differently, equally I am proud of the people who stood for what they believe in and held their red line knowing the consequences.

The fact is many Black and Brown people have survived hostile governments, the Democrats were meant to be better, they aren't.

The Palestinians and Lebanese I was online with last night were indifferent, fear no longer works when whole family lines have been wiped out. The bombs will still be dropped as every American administration has done since 2001.

It's a sad, sad, miserable situation.

@Scirocco sorry, didn't mean to snap! Very upset about this election result.

Same here! Absolutely mind-boggling. Sorry too.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/us-dearborn-trump-gaza-war-elections

How far down the list do you think Palestine is for Trump? Be interesting to see what he does now he is actually the President.

Still can’t fathom how America ended up with such shit options to choose from in the first place, and how people will vote for someone who so openly couldn’t give a toss about (their own) human rights.

Is Trump good for the Palestinians? Absolutely not but he can't be worse than what Harris/Biden have allowed to transpire over the last year+.

I agree, he can't be worse and I am hoping that maybe he'll be better.

Biden had a 30 year old relationship with Netanyahu, he thought he had great influence as a friend of Israel and he was so wrong. Trump has no understanding of foreign policy and he's no interest in foreign wars. At worst he'll let it hum on. At best he'll get frustrated that Israel won't listen and take some action.

Not at all a trump supporter! Just hopeful.

The prospect of 4+ more years of Trump is about as appealing as playing Mass Effect: Andromeda again.

I haven't yet heard Trumps policy/ views on Gaza is there one?

I am currently very worried for Ukraine. People feel trump will force them into a deal with Russia which will see them losing territory.

His policies on Gaza change depending on who he speaks to (and who is paying donating to him).

I remember months ago he gave an interview where he said that Israel needed to finish the war quickly as it's not a good look and they were losing worldwide support.

His VP JD Vance recently said:
"We have built a foreign policy of hectoring, moralizing, and lecturing countries that don’t want anything to do with it.

The Chinese have a foreign policy of building roads and bridges and feeding poor people."
https://x.com/clashreport/status/1854120624718835819

Somehow he did manage to avoid getting America into a War during his previous term despite the Neocons like Lindsay Graham and John Bolton encouraging him to attack Iran.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/21/donald-trump-retaliatory-iran-airstrike-cancelled-10-minutes-before

On Ukraine they will definitely lose land, how much? Much more than if they'd agreed to the Peace deal that Boris Johnson scuppered in summer 2022
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/09/02/diplomacy-watch-why-did-the-west-stop-a-peace-deal-in-ukraine/

They are currently in a much weaker position to negotiate and Russia has stated no Minsk 3 (after Merkel said that Minsk 1&2 were a delaying tactic to allow Nato to arm and train Ukraine).
The casualties of Ukrainian men point towards a demographic collapse when you add in all the Ukrainians that have left and will never return.

I think Trump believes that he's going to come back in and make easy deals because "America" but the USA has squandered so much goodwill that he's going to find it difficult.

Why should Ukraine give up its land to the dictator cunt Putin?

They had a brief summary on BBC last night with regards what way groups voted. Margins were tight but Harris had the majority of female, black, hispanic/ latino votes. Trump had majority for white male voters. So angry white men voted for an angry white man. Unfortunately Harris did not convince enough of the other voters to beat Trump

They shouldn't but if they are forced into a peace agreement with Russia by America they may have no choice. That is what people are scared about.

So this analysis shows that among people who voted, especially swing voters, who are the most important to winning elections the ME was one of the least important factors in their vote. x.com/milansingh03/status/1854941926207651857?t=Y8s3vUfBXhS9bCqqaFMHug&s=19

The people that need to be polled are the currently (some states are still counting!) 14 million Democrats that voted for Biden (81m) in 2020 but did not vote for Harris (67m). That's an extremely large number, why did they not vote?

All the information I have seen and interviews with Americans suggest the main issue was economy, cost of living and inflation. One commenter said people wanted change and they felt Harris was more of the same.
I was in the States earlier this year and have a lot of relatives there (thankfully all democrat voters) I was pretty shocked with the cost of things but globally this is the case. Unfortunately the global trend of inflation coming down will mean people will think it was all Trump's doing when they've more money in their pockets.

Agree Dulra, like Clintons adviser said back in the 90s "it's the economy, stupid".
I've seen so many videos of Americans lamenting the costs of basic goods like eggs, a basic staple food.

They're rightly pissed off that billions of their money is being sent overseas for Wars. The political class seems to be tone deaf to the reality of how the middle class are struggling and like it or not they "felt" richer the last time Trump was in office.