Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer

[orangeblosssom]

Haim Rubinstein claims Israel rejected early Hamas offer to free all civilians if IDF didn't enter Gaza

Was this when Hamas were claiming not to know anything about who had the hostages or where they were?

The article states the deal was in exchange for no ground invasion of Gaza. Although it's possible some details were missed out but if its true then that does seem terrible although you may disagree

Shhhh don’t mention the inconvenient facts! Or the whole, carefully constructed little house of cards falls to bits. And that would never do.

Yes but the deal wouldn't have seen all the hostages returned. That's the only thing I take issue with.

Well, in order to achieve justice and peace, I have been in favour of dialogue with people who have explicitly dedicated themselves to my destruction and the destruction of people like me and who have perpetrated extreme atrocities against people like me when given the opportunity. Because actually, dialogue is necessary to achieve lasting stability and justice.

If we let vengeance blind us, we achieve nothing except to have more blood spilled and more hatred spread.

Don’t we know it. They didn’t stop at ‘an eye for a eye’, though, did they?

Yes that is a fair point and I do understand that. It seems they would have then gone on to ask for a really unreasonable swap for the remaining hostages which was probably the reason they took them in the first place.
I still do think Netanyahu has been a obstacle in reaching a deal as from what I read previously, even some of the negotiators from the Israeli side were getting frustrated with him.

Those poor people. Netanyahu has so much blood on his hands.

Good for you.
Destroying your enemy’s capacity to attack you isn’t vengeance.

Shhh don’t bother reading the link that has been posted on this thread thad explains what the op is talking about and what some of us are talking about. @alloweraoway and @Marjoriefrobisher here you’ve the answer. I’ll put it in bold as well

We later found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer.”

Source- Times of Israel

www.timesofisrael.com/no-doubt-netanyahu-preventing-hostage-deal-charges-ex-spokesman-of-families-forum/amp/

Killing large numbers of civilians and committing war crimes kind of is though. Especially if explicitly framed that way on a regular basis.

Once again, I understand that. My issue is with the conclusions that you and your fellow travellers are drawing from that.

Well, I couldn't leave a child in that situation if there was a choice @Humdingerydoo I'd deal with any consequences after I'd saved the child.

Yes, Netanyahu is an utter disgrace. He's a despicable human being. He's no better than Trump. I don't disagree with you. But with regards to this specific decision taken on 9th or 10th of October, I don't really blame him. I can see where he was coming from. People on here seem to be under the impression the deal Hamas was offering was a good or fair one. It wasn't.

Handy hint - assertion isn’t argument. You’re determined to look at this situation in a particular way. The only thing you’re convincing me of is that you’re prejudiced.

Not sure you realise but the way you’re talking to those that don’t agree with you is doing nothing in your favour.

So you would 100%, without any kind of hesitation, save one, two, maybe five children and condemn eg 100 18-40 year olds to death? You wouldn't try and save them all? Which is what Israel thought they would achieve. They thought it would all be over well before Christmas.

What favours do you imagine I’m looking for?

I don't understand how the others would be condemned to death @Humdingerydoo ?

What do you think would happen to them??

Hamas can release all remaining hostages now, and return the bodies of the dead, if they are serious about even starting to negotiate a ceasefire. Israel has zero incentive to accept dragging this wretched business out until the end of the year, and it won't. Hamas have realised the final act is about to start, when they will deservedly be annihilated. Totally.

Someone saying that they will enact vengeance on innocent people and then attacking those innocent people really does seem to suggest that a motivating factor for that attack might be vengeance.

Vengeance achieves very little in the longer term.

I explained it earlier. The remaining hostages would either be killed by Hamas or possibly held for years and then exchanged for thousands of terrorists, like with Gilad Shalit. The remaining hostages would have been in a much worse position and much less likely to be released alive anytime soon. Bear in mind Hamas still have a couple of dead soldiers from a few years ago that they've not returned.