Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer

[orangeblosssom]

Haim Rubinstein claims Israel rejected early Hamas offer to free all civilians if IDF didn't enter Gaza

@Humdingerydoo he was saying it even during the temporary ceasefire, it's something Netanyahu has repeatedly said. Critics from within and outside of Israel have commented on this, that Netanyahu is purposefully prolonging the war for his own political and selfish reasons

Of course she is, like you, like me, like everyone. The only question would be whether she is biased appropriately given the situation.

This was always going to be a death match to the end. Hamas said on TV they would never stop repeating what they did. They broadcast what they were doing in real time so the world was horrified. They knew the Israel government could not back down after that.

What I honestly can’t understand is that Hamas knew they couldn’t win - ever. So why have they started a fight ( and still going strong) that they knew all their people would either killed or permanently displaced. It just doesn’t add up to me.

I am no military expert but I know America offered to support Israel to target Hamas without indiscriminately bombing the population. If they had secured the release of some of the hostages initially they could have regrouped and worked with their allies on a strategy. Biden warned Netanyahu about going in so quickly after their experience in Iraq and Afghanistan.

@Dulra including persuading those that sit in opulent wealth in Qatar to face trial or exile ? Or handover sinwyar?

They made decisions at the time based on the idea that they would essentially go in to Gaza, get the hostages out and get rid of Hamas.

i’m no military expert but they’ve only rescued 3 people & directly killed 3 others. Seems like they spectacularly failed on that.

they have however very successfully moved the population into a smaller and smaller space - a space they now plan to attack. It’s almost like that was their focus all along.

I’m not surprised the hostage’s families are not very happy with their government.

As you say, you are no military expert & yet you think Israel could have diabled Hamas so easily? If it would have been so easy then America, Britain and all Israel's allies would have absolutely ensured that it was done regardless of what netanyahu wanted. Truly I am gobsmacked that you can sit in the security of this country & blithely say 'Oh Israel could have easily disabled Hamas' . Of all the things I have read on these threads this is perhaps the most shockingly naive.

I think Qatar has seen clearly enough that they are at serious risk of being bombed themselves if they have Hamas leaders on their ground, so they did state that they were changing their position on the conflict, after the Iran-Israel exchanfes. I think they referred to no longer keeping Hamas in.
I would not do it. I would chuck them out of my country. I would not risk getting involved in the military conflict itself.

I don't think it was implied to be easy. More that the response was quick, aggressive and impulsive. It's been suggested that Israel underestimated the capabilities of Hamas. Had they taken more time and worked with allies, they may have had a better idea of how best to free hostages and guarantee their own security. That is how I read it.

Again, temporary ceasefire was much later than 9th or 10th October. We seem to be talking about completely different things. I'm talking about decisions made by Israel straight after the massacre and mass-kidnapping by Hamas and various other terrorists. Not one or two months later.

If their plan to go in, rescue hostages and eliminate Hamas had worked, the hostages families would be a lot happier than they are right now. My point is that the plan failed. If it had succeeded, things would have been a lot better for everyone. But it didn't. Because Hamas were better prepared and better funded than anyone thought they were.

It was a gamble and it very much didn't pay off. Things looked very different on the 9th of October to what they look like now. I'm not sure why people are pretending that's not the case.

Marjoriefrobisher · Today 20:51
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Handy hint - assertion isn’t argument. You’re determined to look at this situation in a particular way. The only thing you’re convincing me of is that you’re prejudiced”

Pots, kettles.

It’s because many people - from both within Israel and outside of Israel - don’t believe that was their plan or that they care about the hostages. It was only after severe pressure from within Israel that they negotiated the release of some hostages.

Some will believe that they had their focus on “eliminating Hamas” and the hostages like the Palestinians civilians who have died are just collateral damage.

Some believe that they saw an opportunity to go into Gaza and destroy the infrastructure to the extent that it would become unlivable, and others believe that they planned to empty Gaza and destroy the Palestinian people there.

And some people also believe the earth is flat. Logic and facts don't matter to some people.

Anyway, I once again seem to be talking about 9th or 10th of October as per the topic at hand to a poster who is talking about events a few weeks later because that conversation would suit their preferred narrative a lot better. We're having completely different conversations so it's pointless to continue this discussion. If you wish to discuss the actual topic at hand, ie Netanyahu not being satisfied with getting only a few of the hostages back in exchange for Hamas being allowed to remain in power and also to keep dozens upon dozens of hostages indefinitely, then let me know.

Night night

Hamas were saying at that point that they did not know who had the hostages or where they were.

Nothing to stop Hamas freeing the hostages now and surrendering, if that is what they want to do

Outside of ceasefire/truce framework, that's unlikely to happen as they wouldn't be getting anything in return. The killing of Palestinians would still continue.

I suppose one question these allegations raise for me is: if there was a line of communication in relation to hostage negotiations, and this was an early offer from Hamas, what steps were taken or not taken to build on that in negotiations?

If my loved ones were hostages, I'd want to know that all avenues were explored, and I'd be very concerned to hear that an early opportunity for negotiations may have been missed/rejected.

Well clearly they did and clearly Netanyahu knew they did. I think this was established a long time ago

yet you think Israel could have disabled Hamas so easily

Pretty sure I never suggested it would be easy. I am basing my point on what Americans were suggesting to Netanyahu at the time and they would have a lot of experience with conflicts of all kinds. I guess on one side you are basing your strategy on preserving as much civilian life and infrastructure as possible and securing the safe release of hostages. On the other side you are not trying to achieve any of those things which is why Netanyahu went for that approach

I am sure they did, but they were claiming they didn't, and saying it wasn't in their power to release them

This.

Also is there a reputable source or proof that this was offered?

They don't want to do that.

The claim is made in an interview with Haim Rubinstein, published in the Times of Israel. The link is at the start of the thread.

Do you expect the spokesman of the families forum for the hostages and missing people to lie to a national Israeli newspaper ?