Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer

[orangeblosssom]

Haim Rubinstein claims Israel rejected early Hamas offer to free all civilians if IDF didn't enter Gaza

@Sussurations Now we are in the realm of hypotheticals. If this news is true (and I'm suspending judgement on that), the civilian hostages in Gaza would be released. There would be further negotiation and Israel would insist on the good treatment of the remaining hostages in return for any deals/concessions made. Then, the talks would either continue with further results, or they would break down and we would be in the same place we are in now, except with a few more hostages released. But I really dislike trying to make future predictions and this kind of 'what if' scenario. We are where we are. Personally, I will wait to hear what further news there is of this story.

Would you agree with Palestinians destroying Israels capacity to attack them, even if it meant a lot of innocent people died along the way?

I think a lot of people are so blinded by hate and anger that they can't see straight. Nobody would agree with Palestinians launching an attack on Israel because Israel kill and torture Palestinians. Pre October 7 it was set to be the deadliest year for children in the Westbank. The same people who are saying what else do you expect Israel to do wouldn't feel the same way about Palestinians killing 10s of 1000s of innocent Israelis. If you expect Palestinians to sit down and be quiet as Israel kill, torture and punish them as has been happening for decades then surely you expect Israel to at least engage in some kind of dialogue before launching a full scale attack. Unless of course you think different rules apply to different people?

I am genuinely mystified by people who approach debate like this. It’s already abundantly clear that the person you’re having the discussion with doesn’t accept your premises. So why keep asserting them over and over again? Is the idea just to bore people into submission?

People on here seem to be under the impression the deal Hamas was offering was a good or fair one. It wasn't.

It was a start and it could have prevented tens of thousands of lives. I posted this upthread and I think it was worth trying:

They could have secured the safe release of some of the hostages regrouped and worked with their allies to find and disable Hamas, support for which was offered to them by their allies,

But I don't believe Netanyahu was really interested in the hostages. He took the opportunity to go in to Gaza. He is now more interested in a ground offensive in Rafah then trying to secure the safe release of hostages.

Quelle surprise…. Just waiting for posters to be called anti-semitic. Soooo predictable. Bore off.

I just don’t know if this is true or not as it’s only one person. But god reading the article makes me feel so sorry for the hostages families, and the hostages.

Their family members are being held by terrorists in a war zone facing famine. And They don’t even have trust their own government and their wlll to get them back - and let’s face it, the Israeli authorities seemed more focused on maximum destruction than finding the hostages from the start.

Israel has said there won’t be ceasefire even if Hamas releases the remaining hostages

Very interestimg proposal. How could Hamas have been 'disabled'?

Im prepared to concede that theoretically at least, there may be another explanation for a refusal to accept that Israel is entitled to take action to prevent further atrocities against it - but I’m damned if I know what it is.
It doesn’t seem likely you can help.

does this apply to yourself as well or only those that you don’t agree with?

And likewise, Hamas have said they will keep on perpetrating attacks like October 7 until all the Jews are gone. But of course it's only Israel who are the "bad guys" in some people's eyes.

Im not the one alleging « war crimes » and « vengeance ».

The Israeli government have a lot more experience in dealing with terrorists than you do. They know that giving in to them will just lead to more terrorism further down the line.

But also, the point I'm trying to make but everyone seems to be ignoring is that Israel thought they could beat Hamas. They thought it would be over and done with quickly. They were wrong. They made decisions at the time based on the idea that they would essentially go in to Gaza, get the hostages out and get rid of Hamas. That's not what happened, but that's what they thought would happen. It's what they said over and over again at the time, but obviously now people are trying to rewrite history.

Israel got it wrong, to devastating consequences for literally everyone involved.

@Humdingerydoo I don't think Netanyahu intended for it to be over quickly, I remember around November time when Biden was already saying he wanted the ground invasion to end by Christmas. At that time Netanyahu was saying that the war would continue for another whole year atleast

We have international laws about war and human rights. Governments and individuals who act in ways which lead to allegations of violations of these can hardly be surprised when the international community and legal bodies then investigate them.

@Humdingerydoo infact he said from very early on that the war would likely go all the way into 2025

I'm assuming through intelligence taking out the key leaders, help with it was offered to them by America at the time. I know your question is not sincere, but it may have worked better then the plan they embarked on which has not disabled Hamas or secured release of all the hostages

Jolly good. And this is apropos of what, exactly?

@Parkingt111 Yes, I remember that too. It was horrifying to hear at Christmas, so stuck in my mind.

Perhaps you could explain on what basis you think anyone has said Israel doesn't have the right to take action?

I think it came as a shock to many people, including myself at the time.

Long before Christmas, they were saying they would go in, get the hostages out and eliminate Hamas. After that failed they changed their tune. But we're talking about what happened 2 or 3 days after the massacre and mass-kidnapping. Not 2 months.

Well, access to some of the most advanced military technology in the world, highly trained and well-resourced strike teams and international backing might have provided some options. Similar to the options used elsewhere.

Of course my question is sincere. What do you mean by 'taken out'? Assassinations? Destroying Hamas's capability is about more than 'taking out a few 'key people' who were mostly in other countries. How would you suggest that they disabled the tunnels and military equipment & other capability? How would they have stopped the rocket atracks? Their attacks have destroyed much of the tunnel infrastructure & clearly exposed Hamas's tendency to conceal military capability within/under/behind civilian infrastructure so they have acieved some of their military aims.

Hostages families have protested today against the government so that they agree to a truce that brings them home