University students rising up against ties with Israel (title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)

[EasterIssland]

Many university students are raising up against the ties their universities have with Israel. Students are asking for this agreements to stop
I can see this is happening in USA which has been in the news quite a lot but I can also read news about Paris as well as UK.

I really doubt much will change but I’m glad people are against these agreements. We can’t change what Israel / Hamas do. But we should be able to change what our governments / universities do.

I'm sorry I don't understand this comment at all. Of course the conflict is about people - where have I suggested otherwise? All conflicts are. What is striking is that the suffering of some people elicits such emotional visceral responses, like people screaming on the streets and reducing all debate to emotional slanging matches devoid of rational thought, while the suffering of other people (happening right now) just gets ignored & doesnt elicit such emotive responses. I do think people would do well to reflect on that & try to be a bit more honest about it

@SharonEllis

The reason people are talking about sleeping soundly or otherwise arose from a poster saying we can sleep soundly because of the choices made by 'big men'. Their choices are actively making the world less safe.

You responded to a post in which I said that some people are not sleeping soundly as a result by suggesting a good night's sleep might help me think more clearly and talking about things being performative. That's just rude and dismissive.

You may not be directly affected or consider this conflict relevant to your interests. It's very relevant to a lot of us. These are our loved ones dying. Some of us are also living with the knowledge that it could easily have been us dying there. If some timings had been different, I could well have been there - instead, one of my colleagues was there. They're dead now and I have to face his family knowing he went instead of me. I cannot undo that (childcare meant I couldn't go). What I can do is keep campaigning and advocating for peace.

Im sorry for your loss and personal situation. You know nothing about mine and need to stop suggesting that somehow I don't care because I am not personally affected - you know nothing about my personal connections. I deliberately have not mentioned them because they are not actually relevant. All conflicts involve loss. Many of us have experienced painful losses and can have empathy for individuals. All sides in this conflict have suffered unimaginable trauma. If one can only see right on the side of a conflict that one has a personal connection to then nothing can ever be resolved. This conflict requires some very clear thinking rational heads & compromise on all sides & listening to some hard truths on all sides.

The numpty earlier poster has mangled a George Orwell quote, which is

We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/george_orwell_390715

@SharonEllis perhaps if you can feel empathy for others, it might be a useful starting point to not start an interaction with someone by being rude and dismissive of them and describing others as being 'performative'. That doesn't exactly demonstrate empathy or being able to see different perspectives.

This conflict requires some very clear thinking rational heads & compromise on all sides & listening to some hard truths on all sides.
Yes but none of us here, as far as I am aware, will have any direct part to play in resolving this conflict. We are posters on a Mumsnet forum which should be a space to show empathy and a space someone can express their pain and sorrow if the conflict has directly impacted them without being dismissed.

You know nothing about mine and need to stop suggesting that somehow I don't care because I am not personally affected - you know nothing about my personal connections. I deliberately have not mentioned them because they are not actually relevant.
No we don't and that is your decision not to share any of that information but I still don't think it's fair or appropriate on a forum like this to dismiss others that do.

The Palestinian people are being used as ever, as sacrificial lambs as a way of attacking Israel. This time around it’s Iran pulling the strings.

Do you not think the photos coming out of Gaza of endless bodies wrapped in shrouds or even the worse has had an effect on the students?

The message we all need to learn (Jew Gentile, Muslim etc) from the Holocaust is that it must never happen again to ANY PEOPLE. It is impossible to give special rights to only one people in a country and expect others to be happy. It is impossible to describe a country as democratic when some people have more rights than others. The latter is an Aparteid system and is never going to end well as a desperately oppressed people do desperate things. There is however a strong Jewish tradition to fight for equality for all. This is the tradition we need to support and there are many Jewish people around the world (and in Israel) who agree. The way forward is to fight for a democratic Israel not one where some people are more equal than others. This is in the future interests of Jew and Gentile and Palestinian.

@ElizaMulvil absolutely! 👍

This.

Odd isn't it.

and This

https://x.com/mehdirhasan/status/1784618644909019218?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

Two Israeli Holocaust scholars join the UPenn encampment

@Polka83 yes of course but Iran has orchestrated the whole thing by funding the Hamas attack on October 7. It was perfectly obvious that Israel would react as it has done.

Iran and Hamas don’t care about the Palestinian people, they just want to destroy Israel.

And Iran caused Israel to respond in such a way that the ICC is now apparently issuing arrest warrants for Netanyahu and other senior Israeli leaders.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-working-to-block-feared-icc-arrest-warrants-against-pm-others-over-gaza-war/amp/

Iran , Hamas and Israel don’t care about Palestinians

Lots of Israelis care about Palestinians. Many of the people attacked and kidnapped on 7 October were peace activists.

I'm sure the poster is talking about the governments of Iran and Israel not caring about Palestinians not their citizens

Thanks Dulra. Exactly. Same way I took @Louloulouenna meant Iran and not it’s citizens overall. Israel government cares about Palestinians as much as irans and Hamas : nothing

I am not saying this is my opinion but I came across this article about the protests on university campuses:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13354861/campus-columbia-protests-palestine-antisemitic-ANDREW-NEIL.html

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1784761816804937758.html?utm_campaign=topunroll

But most interviews I've seen the students aren't able to actually articulate what they are protesting about and what the aim of the protest is. Alot of it seems like they are doing it because everyone else is. Many of these protests have turned into verbally and physically attacking Jewish students. I do support Palestine but that's not the way to do it and it's hypocritical to act that way

Thank you- interesting that he refers to people using tactics to “discredit, delegitimize, defame, and demonize” students and also call them “campus proxies” for Iran.
We’ve seen this in this thread.

If they really cared about the Palestinian people they would be protesting against Hamas and Iran and in favour of the Abraham Accords.

@TinyYellow

"Zionism itself is an extreme view therefore it will provoke extreme opinions."

Could you please explain what you understand by Zionism as there seems to be no single agreed definition with it meaning different things to different people.