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Conflict in the Middle East

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Israel supporting counter marches in London - about time

673 replies

mids2019 · 13/04/2024 21:05

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304895/Met-Police-arrest-Palestine-Israel-march-London-protest-Gaza.html

I think in a democracy this is absolutely necessary. Obviously policing will be important but it is good to see that in terms of street protest this is not a come sided issue.

I wonder how many are going to be arrested losing their rag seeing Israeli flags an masse after getting themselves riled up calling for a ceasefire.....

Met arrest nine as Palestine and Israel protesters march in London

The Met Police has today arrested nine people as thousands of pro-Palestine activists and Israel supporting counter protesters marched through London amid the ongoing conflict in Gaza.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304895/Met-Police-arrest-Palestine-Israel-march-London-protest-Gaza.html

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StormyAprilSkies · 20/04/2024 08:58

Sad:

https://twitter.com/OliLondonTV/status/1781128294454161725

You will be arrested for being openly Jewish.

(How about being arrested for wearing Hamas colours and headvands then! Not a problem )

https://twitter.com/OliLondonTV/status/1781128294454161725

AgnesWickfield · 20/04/2024 08:59

Either people don’t care enough about Israel to show up or they are embarrassed to publicly support genocide.

Hmm yeah that'll be the reason 🤔

SharonEllis · 20/04/2024 09:14

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 08:43

I’ve walked past these counter-protests and seen 50 people at most - that’s probably being generous. Either people don’t care enough about Israel to show up or they are embarrassed to publicly support genocide.

Have there been organised counter protests? I think there are many reasons why any counter protests are small and this is a pretty petty, snide take. First & foremost, fear of intimidation. A lot (not all) of people on the marches are openly antisemitic & aggressively so. While antisemitic attacks have skyrocketed. Regular polling has has shown many Jews feel unsafe when protests are on. Obviously they arent going to turn up to protest. Secondly, as clearly demonstrated this week they arent getting police protection. There is footage of a police officer telling a jewish man that he cant approach the protest because he is 'openly jewish' and his presence is antagonistic.

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:24

If you are turning up to counter-protest a genocide, don’t complain if people are angry at you.

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:25

“a lot (not all) of people on the marches are openly antisemitic & aggressively so”.

Did you let the Jewish bloc know? Or the Orthodox Jewish community who are welcomed at every protest?

Limesodaagain · 20/04/2024 09:28

Pumpkinatmidnight · 19/04/2024 07:02

You quote a poster who mentions the 75 years of occupation and yet you still mention hamas and the hostages? I don't imagine anyone is against the release of the hostages and hamas would not have come into existence without the 75+ years of brutality. Massacres of entire villages, gang rapes of children, slaughtering entire families in their homes, 7\10 multiplied occurred ahead of the Palestinians exodus, the catastrophe that saw this insidious group flee the only homeland they know. Where was the condemnation? Where is the condemnation? Where is the aknowledgement? Can you see the irony, the double standard here?

What I find sad and quite dangerous too is the mockery that has been made of 'antisemitism' and 'condem hamas's because of its over use and misusage.

I've an uncle who is convinced that the Israeli government was never interested in releasing the hostages because mAny who were taken (unfortunately) were peace activists, Israelis fighting for the rights of Palestinians etc. The far right in power do not care for their lives as would rather use them as an excuse to commit genocide (or whatever you want to call the slaughter of thousands upon thousands of civilians).

Edited

“You quote a poster who mentions the 75 years of occupation and yet you still mention hamas and the hostages?” I think you have misunderstood the point I was making. I was not trying to minimise the oppression Palestinians have experienced. This thread is about marches and counter marches. I firmly believe it should be possible to have a March for peace that condemns both Netanyahu AND Hamas, Palestinian oppression AND October 7th .
Such a March would be Brilliant- NO ONE could object. It would be unifying and remind everyone that Jewish and Muslim communities in London ( and everyone else on the march) are NOT representing Netanyahu’s government or Hamas - they just want Justice and Peace.
I have always objected to the lack of posters condemning Hamas and referring to the hostages on the marches for this reason.

Comedycook · 20/04/2024 09:29

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:25

“a lot (not all) of people on the marches are openly antisemitic & aggressively so”.

Did you let the Jewish bloc know? Or the Orthodox Jewish community who are welcomed at every protest?

Yes, this is constantly thrown at Jewish people who talk of anti semitism at marches.

Limesodaagain · 20/04/2024 09:30

What I’m trying to say is - I would like both marches to become one ! How brilliant and symbolic would that be? All marching for PEACE

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:32

@Comedycook because it is a fact. I’m replying to a commenter that said a lot of people on the marches are anti-Semitic. Why? Does supporting Palestinian freedom automatically equate to being anti-Semitic? What are “a lot” of these marchers doing?

SharonEllis · 20/04/2024 09:37

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:25

“a lot (not all) of people on the marches are openly antisemitic & aggressively so”.

Did you let the Jewish bloc know? Or the Orthodox Jewish community who are welcomed at every protest?

I clearly said not all didn't I? Obviously there are some genuine peace activists on the marches. Some of them are Jewish. Sorry I'm not aware of an official 'bloc'. Are you referring to neturei karta the tiny , tiny fringe anti-zionist charedi Jewish sect that are so beloved of anti-Israel activists? Great for a photo, but they are not representative of the majotlrity of Jewish or Israeli opinion as a whole. Suggest you look uo the theological basis of their antizionism.

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:41

@SharonEllis of course there is an official Jewish bloc. I’m surprised you didn’t know about that given how many thousands of people attend. You might want to do some research. I’ve included a link;
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

Home - JVP

Join Us NEWS FEED Read More WE HAVE A PLAN TO END U.S. SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL’S OPPRESSION OF PALESTINIANS Jewish Voice for Peace is the largest progressive Jewish anti-Zionist organization in the world. We’re organizing a grassroots, multiracial, cross-cl...

https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

Comedycook · 20/04/2024 09:45

This argument always reminds me of when far right parties argue they couldn't possibly be racist because a black person joined their organisation once

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:49

Comedycook · 20/04/2024 09:45

This argument always reminds me of when far right parties argue they couldn't possibly be racist because a black person joined their organisation once

Sorry. That doesn’t work. You can’t shame people into supporting genocide. Try again.

Limesodaagain · 20/04/2024 09:51

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:32

@Comedycook because it is a fact. I’m replying to a commenter that said a lot of people on the marches are anti-Semitic. Why? Does supporting Palestinian freedom automatically equate to being anti-Semitic? What are “a lot” of these marchers doing?

The fact that it is not safe to carry placards condemning Hamas or asking for the release of Israeli hostages suggests there are threatening anti Semitic sentiments in a minority of marchers .

BibiSuzanne · 20/04/2024 09:51

I have been on every one of these marches in London. They are peaceful. They are not anti semitic. They are anti Zionist. Of course they are. Zionists stole my people's land. Not Jews. Original Zionists weren't even religious. These marches are calling for a ceasefire. Yes. From the river to the sea chanting is about freedom from oppression. In fact, Israeli Zionists first coined that term. Research yourselves what their government is saying. They want to extend their land as far as Iraq. Listen to Zionists like Daniella Weiss. Don't tell me she is an extremist and a minority. Who would have thought that Netanyahu would have come to power??

This is why we march too. There are many, many Jews on the marches. Jewish speakers. Orthodox Jews and their young sons. Standing there in support. I have seen them attacked physically by pro Israel supporters. Nothing on mainstream media. What you will see on mainstream media are images of pro Palestinians mid chant, looking angry ( of course, who would be happy). When viewing these images out of context you can make your own story.

This small group of counter protesters are made up of more or less the same people. It is organised to provoke. They taunt us as we go past them. They have a stream of photographers aiming at us.

Please don't only talk about Jews feeling unsafe. I too have felt unsafe. Called a terrorist. Being told that my parents and great grandparents etc did not come from Haifa and Nazareth. That they came from 'other Arab' countries after 1967???? Or that we never called ourselves Palestinians until 1967. Then I have to hear how 'Jews' deserved my land after the Holocaust. I grew up with a fear of my own identity. Being Christian made it worse because it didn't fit the narrative.

And don't bring up Hamas. Whatever evil they have done does not take away the continued genocide and pure evilness going on in Gaza and the West Bank. ILLEGALLY OCCUPIED land.

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:52

Or why not actually step away from the keyboard and go join one of the counter protests @Comedycook They could really do with the extra numbers. That’s what this thread is about isn’t it? The counter protests

SharonEllis · 20/04/2024 09:53

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:41

@SharonEllis of course there is an official Jewish bloc. I’m surprised you didn’t know about that given how many thousands of people attend. You might want to do some research. I’ve included a link;
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

JVP is an American anti-zionist organisation. It has no official staus in the UK as a representative of jewish opinion in the uk. All polling that I have ever seen shows that most UK jews are zionists.

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:53

Beautifully put @BibiSuzanne

Limesodaagain · 20/04/2024 09:53

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:52

Or why not actually step away from the keyboard and go join one of the counter protests @Comedycook They could really do with the extra numbers. That’s what this thread is about isn’t it? The counter protests

Why not have both marches join together to ask for peace for both communities?

Comedycook · 20/04/2024 09:54

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:52

Or why not actually step away from the keyboard and go join one of the counter protests @Comedycook They could really do with the extra numbers. That’s what this thread is about isn’t it? The counter protests

How rude are you?

What makes you think you know my opinion on Israel/Gaza?

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:56

@Limesodaagain peace requires a ceasefire. A ceasefire requires not bombing civilians and an end to the occupation of Palestine. I’ll march with anybody that supports a peace for all but I will never stand with people who support a return to the status quo of apartheid and occupation.

Dulra · 20/04/2024 09:57

Limesodaagain · 20/04/2024 09:53

Why not have both marches join together to ask for peace for both communities?

This is something you are requesting so why don't you organise it? I'm always bemused by people that criticise something, suggest a better way of doing it and sit back waiting for others to do it for them without doing anything themselves. If you feel so strongly about this do something about it!!! Rather than preaching

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:57

@Comedycook I didn’t ask your opinion.

Limesodaagain · 20/04/2024 09:58

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:56

@Limesodaagain peace requires a ceasefire. A ceasefire requires not bombing civilians and an end to the occupation of Palestine. I’ll march with anybody that supports a peace for all but I will never stand with people who support a return to the status quo of apartheid and occupation.

That is absolutely not what I said ( and you know it) You’re twisting people’s words and not addressing the actual questions asked. One wonders why?

Comedycook · 20/04/2024 09:58

Mags48 · 20/04/2024 09:57

@Comedycook I didn’t ask your opinion.

Again. So rude.

You told me I should join a counter protest....that implies you've decided what my stance is. How did you come to that conclusion?

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